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To: Tao Yin
"There were plenty of other woman who would have filled that position just fine."

Ouch! I've never seen God's plan reduced to such relativism...

With that attitude, it's kinda surprising Jesus bothered "hanging around the lady" for 30+ years while only spending 3+ with His apostles..
and performed His first miracle of His ministry at her request..
and used one of His last Human breathes exclaiming, "Behold your mother"..

In fact, it seems clear she was very important to Him..

35 posted on 11/03/2009 10:47:38 AM PST by xhrist ("You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body. " - C.S. Lewis)
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To: xhrist

So important that He never called her “Mother”?

Apart from the ones I quoted earlier, here are the other encounters of Jesus and His mother:

One woman sought to give honor to Mary:

“While he was speaking, a woman from the crowd called out and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that carried you and the breasts at which you nursed.” He replied, “Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” — Luke 11

Rather than saying, “Indeed, Blessed is She, the Theotokos, the unshakable hope, ever vigilant in intercession and protection, Mother of life!”, Jesus replies, “Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” The NAB footnotes say, “Rather, it emphasizes (like Luke 2:35) that attentiveness to God’s word is more important than biological relationship to Jesus.”

There is the Wedding at Cana:

1 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding.

3 And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.” 4 Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.”

6 Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece. 7 Jesus said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.”...You have kept the good wine until now!”...12 After this He went down to Capernaum, He, His mother, His brothers, and His disciples; and they did not stay there many days. — John 2

The Catholic footnote in the NAB: “4 [4] This verse may seek to show that Jesus did not work miracles to help his family and friends, as in the apocryphal gospels. Woman: a normal, polite form of address, but unattested in reference to one’s mother. Cf also John 19:26. How does your concern affect me?: literally, “What is this to me and to you?”—a Hebrew expression of either hostility (Judges 11:12; 2 Chron 35:21; 1 Kings 17:18) or denial of common interest (Hosea 14:9; 2 Kings 3:13). Cf Mark 1:24; 5:7 used by demons to Jesus. My hour has not yet come: the translation as a question (”Has not my hour now come?”), while preferable grammatically and supported by Greek Fathers, seems unlikely from a comparison with John 7:6, 30. The “hour” is that of Jesus’ passion, death, resurrection, and ascension (John 13:1).”

And finally, we have the scene at the cross:

25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home. — John 19

He cares for her, even in his agony - but he doesn’t exactly exalt her, does he? He STILL doesn’t call her “Mother”!


39 posted on 11/03/2009 10:54:45 AM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: xhrist
I've never seen God's plan reduced to such relativism

Without Jesus, there would be no salvation. Without Mary, there would have been someone else. Without Pontius Pilate, there would have been someone else. Without any of the Apostles, there would have been someone else. I am saved by Jesus' sacrifice. Everyone else is simple detail.

I am not saying that I don't honor the apostles, prophets, or Mary. I just don't rely on them or thank them for my salvation. They had their part to fulfill in God's plan, but it was God's plan and God's sacrifice that mattered and matters.

40 posted on 11/03/2009 10:59:04 AM PST by Tao Yin (sorry, couldn't resist.)
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