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To: GonzoII; Dr. Eckleburg; Marysecretary; Alex Murphy; boatbums
"What have you been smoking...!! "

As I said, herein lies a grave dilemma for Catholics. You cannot hearken to the Scriptures to rein in headquarters from wandering away from the Gospel, since they are your definers of truth. If they say it has changed, you cannot argue.

You cannot know what they will reveal tomorrow that will become the "new truth" you must believe. Instead, you must stand hat in hand, waiting, waiting to be told what it is that you should now believe.

Come out to the light of Christ, alone, if you can. We, see the perpecuity of the Scriptures and are free to read them, and understand them. But, they never change. No headquarters dictating a "moving" belief (newer revelation). Rather, the enjoyment of grappling with the text to see its plenary and beautiful content And fellowship with others doing the same. We correct each other, based upon the best persuasive arguments for authorial intent. We are enslaved to God, not men.

We understand people drift away (managed by God, according to the Text), but the Scriptures gives us something to point "back" to when we notice it. And we notice it here...Rome has drifted far from shore, if it was ever close. Waiting for the response.

171 posted on 11/04/2009 10:54:56 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88
As I said, herein lies a grave dilemma for Catholics. You cannot hearken to the Scriptures to rein in headquarters from wandering away from the Gospel, since they are your definers of truth. If they say it has changed, you cannot argue.

You cannot know what they will reveal tomorrow that will become the "new truth" you must believe. Instead, you must stand hat in hand, waiting, waiting to be told what it is that you should now believe.

"Shut up and kiss the ring"

173 posted on 11/04/2009 11:34:17 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him" - Job 13:15)
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To: Dutchboy88
"If they say it has changed"

That's where you're mistaken, they never will because the truth can't change.

174 posted on 11/04/2009 11:55:47 AM PST by GonzoII ("That they may be one...Father")
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To: Dutchboy88
"You cannot know what they will reveal tomorrow that will become the "new truth" you must believe."

Certainly you are refering to the thousands of Protestant denominations...

178 posted on 11/04/2009 12:10:36 PM PST by GonzoII ("That they may be one...Father")
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To: Dutchboy88

Sorry, Dutchboy88, but from a Catholic perspective all those denominations arguing over the interpretations of Scripture, correcting each other “based on the best persuasive arguments for authorial intent” and holding themselves up as authorities on Scripture while criticizing all those who don’t enjoy “grappling with the text” sound a bit more like Pharisees than Christians.

Catholics believe Christ promised to guide His Church and prevent it from teaching error in matters of faith. We see no problem in accepting authority: God’s, Christ’s, and the Apostles and their successors (the Pope’s). Why would Christ set up a tower of Babel when it came to setting up His Church? He would be clear, authoritative, and sensible. He is God and anything He established would be WELL established. What Protestants do with the Bible sounds like enslavement to me: constant bickering and refuting and negotiating about what each little line means without examining it in context and from the historical perspective. Sounds like Protestants are guided by persuasive arguments when interpreting the Bible. Gosh, what happens when there are TWO persuasive Bible interpreters in the same room?

The devil makes very persuasive arguments too. Persuasiveness is no litmus test for understanding God’s will for us. Abraham was not noted for being “persuasive”. Moses wasn’t very persuasive at all. The Jews often stopped doing what he told them God wanted. Hmmm, the Apostles: not one was known for being persuasive. None of them were even known for being well educated in Scripture. They often got it wrong in trying to understand what Christ was telling them. Only after the visit from the Holy Spirit did the Apostles become persuasive. Only then did they have the authority burning in their hearts and minds that was the gift of the Holy Spirit. Christ gave them the authority and promised He would continue to guide them as His Church.

The Holy Spirit is guiding every Pope to teach Truth on matters of faith. When the Pope speaks to us on matters of faith, we believe he is just as guided by the Holy Spirit as the authors of the Bible were, and as the Apostles were.

Rome was on the shore with Christ. Rome was told it would be fishing for men. Rome was told it would not be left an orphan by God’s Son. We put our faith in what the Apostles told us about Christ and the Church. They told us the authority passes to the successors of Peter.

We don’t need a “persuasive” fellow to tell us what to think about the Bible.


201 posted on 11/04/2009 11:24:54 PM PST by Melian ("frequently in error, rarely in doubt")
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