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To: marshmallow

Nothing to contradict it except the verses saying all had sinned...

You also need to study the full of grace passage a bit harder...it means God had given her grace at some point (no idea how long is conveyed) and it still existed at the time the angel spoke. It did NOT in any way suggest she was always without sin, just as the same grammar in the previous verses didn’t indicate she had always been betrothed to Joseph!

The error of Catholics in reading about the church in the NT is to assume ‘church’ refers to the ecclesiastical structure that is the Catholic Church. That is why Thomas More was upset with Tyndale’s better translation of ‘congregation’ - it robbed Rome of authority. That is also why King James ordered it not to be used in the KJV - to protect the Anglican Church, which in turn protected his throne.

However, the NT church had congregations with deacons and elders. The Apostles, by their office, held a unique role over ANY congregation, and also in writing scripture.

Read Exodus 28-29 to see how God ordained the Aaronical Priesthood. Why be so specific about Aaron, and give nothing specific to Peter?


151 posted on 11/03/2009 9:06:55 AM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers
You also need to study the full of grace passage a bit harder...it means God had given her grace at some point (no idea how long is conveyed) and it still existed at the time the angel spoke. It did NOT in any way suggest she was always without sin, just as the same grammar in the previous verses didn’t indicate she had always been betrothed to Joseph!

The Church has actually been studying this passage very hard for 2,000 years. There's no need for me to study anything "harder". It's not a personal thing. This is the collective wisdom of saints, Popes, theologians and doctors of the Church. That's why tradition trumps some guy in a suit who's done a "course" on Scripture.

Dismiss it at your peril.

The error of Catholics in reading about the church in the NT is to assume ‘church’ refers to the ecclesiastical structure that is the Catholic Church.

The "church in the NT" is the Catholic Church in its infancy. The term "catholic" was first used by Ignatius of Antioch when referring to the growing church. It goes back a long way.

153 posted on 11/03/2009 9:36:16 AM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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