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In post 45 you said: "To say "First of the Sabbaths" and mean the first Sabbath in the seven Sabbath count to Pentecost.....would not be awkward.

Sorry, I didn't see the word "not" when I was reading it. I really need to be done here. I'm not readingthings very well and I'm getting tired of misquoting you guys and looking like a fool.

With much love

-Jay

With much love -Jay

Likewise.......Jay, and blessings to your home and all within.

I have a friend that I have been discussing this with and I wrote a few things to him about our discussion. He is a knowledgeable, Torah observant, Lutheran minister (not too many of them around). He is very knowledgeable about his Greek language and so I trust what he has to say on this subject regarding the word "sabbatwn" verses "sabbaton". Here is what he had to say:

Yes there is a word in Greek for week, but even though these scriptures are written in Greek the speakers spoke Hebrew. So this is the Greek translation of the Hebrew phrases and words used by the speakers. If the Jews marked the weeks according to the sabbath and it relations to it - it would make only perfect sense that they would use the word "Sabbath" in Greek if that is the word that they would have used in their Hebrew phraseology.

The word used in the resurrection passages in all the gospel's is the word "sabbatwn" which is translated as a plural form of Sabbath, not "sabbaton" (according to the Greek NT).

This is an excellent example of the lack of Greek knowledge that is being used here. The small "w" in Greek is the letter "Omega" in the small and not capital form (it makes an "o" sound). So the word should actually be transliterated "sabbaton". Sabbaton is the proper transliteration of sabbatwn. But, why confused ourselves with the facts? Sabbaton is neutral (in Greek), it can be either singular or plural, it has no position one way or the other. Again, we have to look at context of history, tradition, and actual use of language (and proper Greek) to truly get this meaning. The earliest believers understood Yeshua rose on the first day of the week we may want to also consider those traditions. But, again why confuse ourselves with facts.

If they were going to say first day of the week then why not just say it.

Let me ask you this. If the phrase "first day of the week" was not a part of your vocabulary what do you do? What if the way you render the days is by the first day of the sabbath, second day of the sabbath? Should we change our habits and traditions simply to make our generation feel better? My contention (and most biblical and Greek, and Rabbinic Scholars) is that the early believers rendered the days in relation to the Sabbath. If you can prove otherwise I would be happy to see it.

I misspoke above...

Sabbatwn is the transliteration of the Greek letters...sabbaton is the phonetic pronunciation of the Greek word. But they are the exact same word.

With love.

-Jay