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Bishop Nickless: The 'Spirit' of Vatican II is a Demon that Must be Exorcised (in detail)
NC Register ^ | October 16, 2009 | TIM DRAKE

Posted on 10/16/2009 2:23:05 PM PDT by NYer

I first met Sioux City, Iowa Bishop Walker Nickless a month ago at the Serra International gathering in Omaha, Neb. Little did I know then that he was working on his bold first pastoral letter since his installation as bishop four years ago.

Ecclesia Semper Reformanda (The Church is Always in Need of Renewal), released yesterday, takes a look at the impact of the Second Vatican Council and sets forth a plan for the people of Sioux City and beyond. In many ways, it’s a pastoral letter unlike one we’ve yet seen.

Forty-four years after the close of the Council, Bishop Nickless says there are many questions that still need to be asked and answered.

“Have we understood the Council within the context of the entire history of the Church? Have we understood the documents well? Have we truly appropriated and implemented them? Is the current state of the Church what the Council intended? What went right? What went wrong? Where is the promised “New Pentecost”?

Quoting from Pope Benedict XVI’s address to the Roman Curia in December, 2005, Bishop Nickless draws attention to the two contrary hermeneutics that arose from the Council – one which caused confusion (‘a hermeneutic of discontinuity and rupture’), and the other which has borne fruit (‘hermeneutic of reform’).

“The hermeneutic of discontinuity risks ending in a split between the pre-conciliar Church and the post-conciliar Church,” said Pope Benedict.

Bishop Nickless says that these two rival interpretations have weakened the Church’s identity and mission.

The consequence, says Bishop Nickless, has been a sort of dualism – “an either/or mentality and insistence in various areas of the Church’s life: either fidelity to doctrine or social justice work, either Latin or English, either personal conscience or the authority of the Church, either chant or contemporary music, either tradition or progress, either liturgy or popular piety, either conservative or liberal, either Mass or Adoration, either the Magisterium or theologians, either ecumenism or evangelization, either rubrics or personalization, either the Baltimore Catechism or ‘experience,’”…

For a clear example of this type of dualistic thinking, read through America magazine’s “Confessions of a Modern Nun,” by Ilia Delio. There, quoting Dominican Timothy Radcliffe, Delio describes American nuns as being either Concilium Catholics or Communio Catholics.

“Members of the Leadership Conference embrace modernity and the work of the council as the Holy Spirit breathing new life in the church,” writes Delio. “They fall under what Father Radcliffe identifies as the Concilium group, who focus on the Incarnation as the central point of renewal. Members of the Conference of Major Superiors, by contrast, are Communio Catholics, who emphasize communion through proclamation of the faith, a clear Catholic identity and the centrality of the cross. Members of the Conference of Major Superiors, by contrast, are Communio Catholics, who emphasize communion through proclamation of the faith, a clear Catholic identity and the centrality of the cross. (Concilium and Communio are the names of two periodicals founded in the postconciliar era. The first stressed conciliar reforms; the second stressed the continuity of the council documents with the community of the faithful through past centuries.) Thus, one group focuses on doxology and adoration (Communio), the other on practice and experience (Concilium). One sees Christ as gathering people into community (Communio); the other sees Christ as traversing boundaries (Concilium). The C.M.S.W.R. recently held its eucharistic congress under the title “Sacrifice of Enduring Love,” while the L.C.W.R. continues to work on systemic change. The former sees religious life as divine espousal with Christ; the latter sees Christ in solidarity with the poor and justice for the oppressed.”

“There can be no split, however, between the Church and her faith before and after the Council,” writes Bishop Nickless. “We must stop speaking of the ‘Pre-Vatican II’ and ‘Post-Vatican II’ Church, and stop seeing various characteristics of the Church as ‘pre’ and ‘post’ Vatican II. Only the ‘hermeneutic of reform,’ he says, is valid and “has borne and is bearing fruit.”

“The ‘spirit of Vatican II’ must be found only in the letter of the documents themselves,” writes Bishop Nickless. “The so-called ‘spirit’ of the Council…is a ghost or demon that must be exorcised if we are to proceed with the Lord’s work.”

Bishop Nickless goes on to state that, “we have sometimes lost sight of who we are and what we believe, and therefore have little to offer the world that so desperately needs the Gospel.”
“Our urgent need at this time is to reclaim and strengthen our understanding of the deposit of faith,” writes Nickless. He adds that our mission is two-fold – both within the Church (ad intra) and to the world (ad extra). He then sets forth a plan for “reclaiming and strengthening our faith, identity and culture as Catholics.”

That plan includes the following:

1. A renewal of reverence, love, adoration and devotion to the Most Blessed Sacrament within and outside of Mass, regular reception of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, and devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary.

2. Strengthening catechesis on every level, beginning with and focusing on adults, with Sacred Scripture and the Catechism of the Catholic Church as the primary sources of formation.

3. The protection and building up of holy families.

4. Fostering a culture where young people can more readily respond to the radical calls of ministerial priesthood and the consecrated life.

5. Acknowledging and embracing the missionary character of the Catholic Faith and the vocation of all Catholics to be, not only disciples, but also apostles.

Above all, Bishop Nickless calls the faithful to “great acts of renunciation.”

“In order to strengthen our devotion to Christ in the Holy Eucharist and worship God rightly, we need to renounce any attachment to how we worship currently. To improve the spiritual depth of how we perform the Church’s liturgy, we will need to renounce attachment to worldly expectations and long-standing habits. To spend more time adoring Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, we need to renounce attachments to how we currently use our time,” he writes. “To deepen our intimate love for God in our hearts and heads, we need to renounce attachments to whatever is not God that is filling our hearts and heads. To live in more intentional and holy Catholic families, we need to renounce attachment to distractions, sins, and imperfections that harm our domestic churches. To accept the divine plan god has for each of us, we need to renounce attachment to our own plans. To change the world for Christ, we need to renounce attachment to how we want the world to be for ourselves.”

It’s a fantastic read. You’ll find the pastoral letter in its entirety here.


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Ministry/Outreach; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; nickless; pope; vatican; vatican2; vcii

1 posted on 10/16/2009 2:23:06 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

There have already been two threads posted to the forum on this topic. I am adding this one for its detailed plan of action.


2 posted on 10/16/2009 2:24:37 PM PDT by NYer ( "One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
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To: NYer
The 'Spirit' of Vatican II is a Demon that Must be Exorcised

Good luck with that. The inmates are running the asylum.

3 posted on 10/16/2009 2:26:20 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Hear us, O Bama: Mmm, mmm, mmm.)
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To: NYer
As one who grew up under Vatican II, I agree. As the youngest of a large Irish, Catholic family you can really see the difference between me (who was raised immediately after its implementation) and my other well reared and heeled siblings who were not. I was a hell cat on steroids (as a young woman) and was only heeled later by God's intervention, grace, and miracles. Vatican II is and was evil.
4 posted on 10/16/2009 2:29:58 PM PDT by GOP Poet (Obama is an OLYMPIC failure.)
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To: NYer
“change the world for Christ...”

I don't remember that being in the Great Commission. I must be too old.

5 posted on 10/16/2009 3:12:33 PM PDT by Excellence (Meet your new mother-in-law, the United States Government)
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To: NYer
“The ‘spirit of Vatican II’ must be found only in the letter of the documents themselves,” writes Bishop Nickless. “The so-called ‘spirit’ of the Council…is a ghost or demon that must be exorcised if we are to proceed with the Lord’s work.”

Correct the "spirit" of Vatican II is not the friendly ghost. The letter of Vatican II is not the issue here.
6 posted on 10/16/2009 3:24:54 PM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: GOP Poet

As one who also grew up under Vatican II, I can say my older siblings had a mixed bag of success and failure with Catholicism, as they can remember pre-Vatican days.

The eldest became an atheist who misses the aesthetics of pre-Vatican liturgy but has no desire to go back to church because he would have to admit that he isn’t as smart as he thinks he is.

The second rebelled from the Church when he rebelled from our parents. Married a Baptist at a young age and never went back to the Church.

The third one is Catholic, again, after AA recovery.

The fourth hated the Church, until his daughter died at birth. Then he humbly realized that he needed God’s help very much. He is the most militant Catholic in the family.

My sister thought the Church was paternalistic and mean to women. It was the Church’s fault that our dad was bossy and sexist, apparently. She also suffered great knee pain from being required to kneel a lot in Catholic school. (They didn’t know she had knees that were not fit for that.) She is a pro-choice Presbyterian today, with artificial knees. She is not into objective Truth, but rather having everyone feel ok.

For the people who came of age in the 1960s, I think Vatican II has little to do with whether they grew up right and became faithful adults. There were so many other cultural influences telling people that their parents were stupid, that “I’m ok-you’re ok”, that the Catholic patriarchy just want women to be barefoot and pregnant. The liturgy could have been absolutely perfect in every way, and people still would have bailed.

Not to say the liturgy couldn’t be improved, or restored, but I think the benefit of that would fall mostly to those of us who are already there every week. The best thing for restoring interest in Church in recent years was 9/11. The churches were full for a couple of weeks. Perhaps working on people’s awareness of the need for God would be a good start.


7 posted on 10/17/2009 9:50:05 AM PDT by married21
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To: NYer
The 'Spirit' of Vatican II is a Demon that Must be Exorcised

Just in time for Halloween!

Bump (in the night).

8 posted on 10/17/2009 3:49:14 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (Fearing for the republic 24/7.)
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To: Jeff Chandler
Good luck with that. The inmates are running the asylum.

Which "asylum" are you referring to?

9 posted on 10/17/2009 3:49:45 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (Fearing for the republic 24/7.)
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To: the invisib1e hand
Which "asylum" are you referring to?

It just an expression. It means that, with few exceptions that I've run across, silly, shallow, stupid nutcakes are in charge of Mass. There isn't much Sacred in the Sacred Liturgy any more.

10 posted on 10/17/2009 6:17:53 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Hear us, O Bama: Mmm, mmm, mmm.)
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To: Jeff Chandler
There isn't much Sacred in the Sacred Liturgy any more.

Idunno about that.

11 posted on 10/17/2009 6:52:04 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (Fearing for the republic 24/7.)
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To: the invisib1e hand
I call 'em as I see 'em.

Between the band rehearsal up to the very start of the Mass, the extra Sign of Peace before start of the Mass (greet your neighbor), the extra homily at the start of the Mass to explain what today's Mass is about, the experimental theater enhancing the readings, the "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs, the "Jesus has a beautiful body" songs, the "I get to sing Jesus' parts" songs, the audience breaking into applause for the band's performance, the somber, morose, pre-Gospel Alleluhia sung to Leonard Cohen's music, the Peace and Justice Prayers of the Faithful, the personalized, do-it-yourself Eucharistic Prayer, the Lord's Prayer with the words changed, the insipid, sing-songy Lamb of God too goofy for even a childrens Mass, and the priest encouraging a hale, hearty "alleluhia" at the end of every Mass all year long, the only thing sacred is the Holy Eucharist.

In the modern liturgy, the Holy Eucharist is like a glorious, awesome, beautiful diamond perched upon a big steaming pile of excrement.

12 posted on 10/17/2009 7:13:28 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Hear us, O Bama: Mmm, mmm, mmm.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

puhleeze. find another parish. and no, I’m not interested in debating this with you.


13 posted on 10/17/2009 7:20:45 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (Fearing for the republic 24/7.)
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To: NYer

That will never happen. Even in the Vatican, it will never happen.


14 posted on 10/17/2009 7:25:37 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: NYer; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...

H.E. has the makings of a great man of God, may the Paraclete and the Hosts of Heaven protect him as he fights the good fight here on earth.


15 posted on 10/17/2009 7:27:06 PM PDT by narses ("These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own.")
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To: the invisib1e hand

There are no parishes close by that aren’t goofy, although there is a new one being built and I’m praying.

I don’t mind the Novus Ordo if done with respect for the sacred. If I want to attend Latin Mass I have to drive 45 minutes each way, so with the hour-and-a-half Mass and getting there early, I’m looking at close to four hours to attend Mass.

We used to have a pastor who kept a tight reign on the egos and kept the masses sacred, but he got a promotion.

I think that for now I am going to go to the 6:45 AM quiet Mass.


16 posted on 10/17/2009 8:19:40 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Hear us, O Bama: Mmm, mmm, mmm.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

Jeff, your parish sounds like a nightmare.

I have seen similar nonsense at the closest church near my home but finally found a very old fashioned parish not too far away. It is run by the OVM and I suspect other parishes run by them are similar.


17 posted on 10/18/2009 2:48:00 PM PDT by warsaw44
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To: warsaw44
Jeff, your parish sounds like a nightmare.

It has become a farce with all the egos, gaudy, childish taste, and do-it-yourself crap.

18 posted on 10/18/2009 3:00:10 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Hear us, O Bama: Mmm, mmm, mmm.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

It sounds like Bishop Nickless will be playing Gin Rummy with Bishop Martino before a year has past.


19 posted on 10/19/2009 1:34:05 AM PDT by nickcarraway
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