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To: ROTB

The question at hand is, does the Torah and Tanakh point to a 1st century arrival of the Messiah?

Is the chr*stian definition of Messiah, the same as the Hebew definition?  Nope.

Messiah from the Hebrew
4899 mashiyach maw-shee'-akh from the root of 4886;

anointed; usually a consecrated person (as a king, priest, or saint);
specifically, the Messiah:--anointed, Messiah.
1) anointed, anointed one
a) of the Messiah, Messianic prince
b) of the king of Israel
c) of the high priest of Israel
d) of Cyrus
e) of the patriarchs as anointed kings

Now Christ from the Greek
5547 Christos khris-tos' from the root 5548;
anointed, i.e. the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus:--Christ.
Christ = "anointed"
1) Christ was the Messiah, the Son of God
2) anointed Notice what IS MISSING?  In the Greek, there are no other options given.  

Psalm 2
2   The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

Psalm 18
50   Great deliverance giveth he to his king; and sheweth mercy to his anointed, to David, and to his seed for evermore.

Psalm 89
20   I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:

So, Yehoshua wasn't the only one annointed.....

Psalms 2:7  I will tell of the decree: YHWH said unto me: 'Thou art My son, this day have I begotten thee.

First of all, in Hebrew, there are no upper or lower case letters.

Psalms 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, thou art my son; this day have I begotten thee.

1 Chronicles 22
9   Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days.
10   He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever.

We 'could' take the same liberty that the publishers of the KJV took.

1 Chronicles 22
9   Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days.
10   He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be
My Son, and I will be His Father; and I will establish the throne of His kingdom over Israel for ever.

Wow, look at that, Solomon was The Messiah.....    Just so nobody complains, the bold verses of course have been changed by altering the upper/lower case.  This shows how easily the publishers of the KJV could steer the reader and get them to believe what they wanted them to.

At any rate, Yehoshua wasn't the only one YHWH called son.

The term "moshiach" or "messiah" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The moshiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days. The word "moshiach" does not mean "savior." The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save mankind from the consequences of their own sin is a purely chr*stian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought. Unfortunately, this chr*stian concept has become so deeply ingrained in the English word "messiah" that this English word can no longer be used to refer to the Jewish concept.

Jews do not believe that Yehoshia was the moshiach. Assuming that he existed, and assuming that the chr*stian scriptures are accurate in describing him, Jews maintain that he simply did not fulfill the mission of the moshiach as it is described in the biblical passages cited in the Jewish Scriptures (the following passages in the Jewish scriptures are the ones that Jews consider to be messianic in nature or relating to the end of days. These are the ones that they rely upon in developing their messianic concept: Isaiah 2, 11, 42; 59:20 Jeremiah 23, 30, 33; 48:47; 49:39 Ezekiel 38:16 Hosea 3:4-3:5 Micah 4 Zephaniah 3:9 Zechariah 14:9 Daniel 10:14). Yehoshua did not do any of the things that the Jewish Scriptures said the messiah would do. (1) The Jewish Messiah is to be a human being born naturally to husband and wife. He is not to be a god, nor a man born of supernatural or virgin birth, as chr*stianity claims.

Nowhere does the Jewish Bible or Prophets say that the Messiah would be a god or God like. The very idea that God would take on human form is repulsive to Jews because it contradicts the concept of God as being above and beyond the limitations of the human body and situation. Jews believe, according to the Jewish Scriptures, that God alone is to be worshipped, not a being who is His creation, be he angel, saint, or even the Messiah himself.

Nowhere does the Bible predict that the Messiah will be born to a virgin. In fact, virgins never give birth anywhere in the Bible. This idea is to be found only in pagan mythology. To the Jewish mind, the very idea that God would plant a seed in a woman is unnecessary and unnatural.

What would be accomplished by such a claim?  To serve what purpose?

The claim that Mary did not have natural relations with her husband must have made the Jews of that time suspect her of wrongdoing. The New Testament admits as much when it says (Matthew 1:19), "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily."

The whole idea of virgin birth serves no purpose, except to attract pagans to chr*stianity.

Judaism believes that God is eternal, above and beyond time. God cannot be born, He cannot die, He cannot suffer, He can not "become flesh," nor can He be divided into sections ("Father, Son, and Holy Ghost"). These are pagan notions.

(2)  The Jewish Messiah is expected to return the Jews to their land. Jesus was born while the Jews still lived in their land, before they had gone into exile. He could not restore them to their land because they were still living in it!

(3)  The true Messiah is to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem — but Yehoshua lived while the Temple was still standing.

(4)  The Jewish Bible says that the Messiah will redeem Israel. In the case of Yehoshua, the very opposite took place. Not long after his death, the Holy Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed, Jerusalem was laid to waste, and the Jews went into exile to begin a 1900-year-long night of persecution—-largely at the hands of the followers of this self-styled "Messiah!"

(5)  The Prophets in the Bible foretold (Isaiah 45) that when the Messiah comes, all the nations of the world will unite to acknowledge and worship the one true God. "The knowledge of God will fill the earth. The world will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the seas" (Isaiah 11:9). Nothing of this nature took place following the death of Yehoshua. On the contrary, Islam developed and became the religion of the Arabs and many other nations, chr*stianity broke up into many conflicting sects which were constantly at war with each other, and a large part of the world continued to worship idols. Even today the world is far from the worship of one God.

(6)  When the true Messiah comes, his influence will extend over all peoples who will worship God at the Temple in Jerusalem. The Prophet says, "For My House will become the House of Prayer for all the Nations." This has obviously not yet taken place, and, therefore, the Messiah has not yet come.

(7)  During the time of the Messiah a new spirit will rule the world, and man will cease committing sins and crimes; this will especially apply to the Jews. The Torah (in Deuteronomy 30:6) says that "God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your children to love God." The Prophets taught: "And your people are all righteous, they will inherit the earth forever" (Isaiah 60:21); "In that day I will seek the sins of Israel and there will be none" (Jeremiah 50:20); "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27   And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." (Ezekiel 36:26,27). Soon after the time of Yehoshua, ignorance of God and even ignorance of science and philosophy filled the earth, as the "Dark Ages" overtook the world.

(8)  The true Messiah is to reign as King of the Jews. Yehoshua's' career as described in the New Testament lasted all of three years, at the end of which he was crucified by the Romans as a common criminal. He never functioned as anything but a wandering preacher and "faith healer"; certainly, he held no official position or exercised any rule of any kind.

(9) One of the Messiah's major tasks is to bring peace to the entire world. In the time of the Messiah, there are to be no more wars, and the manufacture of arms will cease. The Prophet Isaiah (2:4) says, "And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." Yet, chr*stian nations are continually at war and wars have been going on almost non-stop since the time of Yehoshua up to and including today.

(10)  The New Testament itself claims that the prophecies concerning the Messiah were to be realized in Yehoshua's own generation. Mark (13:30) clearly says, "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." In Matthew 4, Yehoshua is quoted saying that “The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." Almost 2,000 years have passed and still nothing has been accomplished.

(11)  The Bible says that the Messiah would be descended in a direct line from King David. However, if God was Yehoshua's "father," is it not somewhat ridiculous to claim that he is descended from King David on his father's side?

(12)  If Yehoshua was really the Messiah, why does the New Testament admit that all the rabbis of the time, without one exception, rejected his claim? Why was there not one man of learning, nor one prominent leader who accepted him?  Who was in a position to judge if he was or was not the Messiah—-his own people, who anxiously awaited the arrival of the Messiah, or pagan peoples who had no understanding of what the concept really meant?

(13)  If God has "rejected" the Jews for not "accepting Yehoshua" as chr*stians claim, why have the Jewish People managed to survive 2,000 years of chr*stian persecution? How do chr*stians explain the miracle of Jewish survival? Why has God restored the city of Jerusalem and the Land of Israel to His "rejected" people?

(14)  Nowhere does the Jewish Bible teach the Messiah would come once, be killed,  and return again in a “second coming.” The idea of a second coming is a pure rationalization of Yehoshua's failure to function in any way as a Messiah, or to fulfill any of the prophecies of the Torah or the Prophets. The idea is purely a Christian invention, with no foundation in the Bible, and created only to explain away why Yehoshua did not return in the generation of his followers as the New Testament attests.

given that God has moved according to scripture, and has given us prophets per Deuteronomy 18:21-22

I have yet to see a verse from the Tanakh that suggests or predicts that YHWH will come in the form of man.   The prediction was that YHWH would raise up a prophet from among the Jews, like Moses. Yehoshua himself tells us that he is/was a prohet.

Matthew 13
57   And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

Luke 13
33   Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem

Acts 3
22   For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Acts 7
37   This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

The operative words in these verses are PROPHET! YHWH would raise a PROPHET amidst them, NOT a second-god, nor a god-man, or demi-god or sun-god.  Yehoshua was a prophet and he told people what to do. To repent and keep the commandments.

“What happened that year?”, the answer is Yehoshua Ha Mashiach was preaching and teaching, and was pointed to by the Pharisees (your spiritual forefathers), and called an agent of the Devil!

Not quite.

Mat 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

He placed 'moral' law above 'ceremonial' law.  This is why some 'thought' that he 'broke' the law.  You have to remember that Yehoshua taught in a period of transition, during the development of different schools of interpretation in Judaism. It is inevitable that there would be variant interpretations of the Law as recorded in the Gospels. With the Pharisees, Yehoshua accepts the Law of the Sabbath; he differs only in the interpretations of that law as found in the Oral Law. The Oral Law detailed the many conditions that allowed for the breaking of the Sabbath.

For example, the Rabbis of the Hillel School of Pharisaism declared that is was permissible to violate the Sabbath to preserve life, that in doing so you violate a Sabbath to ensure the observance of future Sabbaths. This was accepted interpretation by the Hillel Pharisees of which Yehoshua belonged, but not to the Shammai Pharisees or the Sadducees who were ultra-strict, always adhering to the 'letter of the Law' over the 'spirit of the Law' (Oral Law). It has been said that in elevating the spirit of the Law over the letter of the Law one can understand the minimizing of the ceremonial laws. But it is not that simple according to Yehishua. As gentiles, we are not aware that the Oral Law brought a proper understanding to the Written Law if matters were in doubt.

These (least commandments) you ought to have done, without neglecting the others (grave-weightier commandments). In drawing such a contrast, Yehoshua does not annul the Written Law (613 laws), nor even the ceremonial laws; he only brings priority to the obedience of all the Laws.   Jesus did not stand against the Written Law or Oral Law, nor even Pharisaism, but only against the elevation of the 'letter of the Law' above the 'spirit of the Law'.

Rev 2:19
I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last [to be] more than the first.

Notice that works is mentioned twice.  Check out the two tablets (commandments). The 'moral laws' (those between us and our fellow man) and 'ceremonial laws' (those between us and YHWH).

As for the ending of sacrifices, there are plenty of verses to indicate that YHWH never commanded sacrifices.  They seem to be merely allowed and were being phased out in lieu of prayer and contrition.  The sacrifices seem to be more of a practice brought back from their captivity.

109 posted on 12/02/2009 4:48:51 AM PST by ET(end tyranny)
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To: ET(end tyranny); Zionist Conspirator

Will get back to you, and you (ZC),unless the Lord takes me.


111 posted on 12/03/2009 2:17:24 AM PST by ROTB ("By any means necessary" is evil. See what God thinks of "rising oceans" in Jeremiah 5:22)
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To: ET(end tyranny)
As for the ending of sacrifices, there are plenty of verses to indicate that YHWH never commanded sacrifices.

::Shakes head in disbelief::

One day you simply must get around to reading the front of your Bible.

113 posted on 12/03/2009 8:29:03 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Lo' Ya`aqov ye'amer `od shimkha ki-'im Yisra'el; ki sariyta `im-'Eloqim ve`im-'anashim vatukhal.)
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