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To: ROTB; kosta50
Whether the worship of Yehoshua HaMashiach fulfills the Law of Moses as is done by Christians around the world, or the festivals should be carried out eternally as is done by Messianic Jews around the world is irrelevant.

On the contrary, this is the very heart of the matter! You will notice that the only "mashiach" mentioned by the Torah is Aaron and his successors. The messiah isn't the point of the Torah at all; rather the Torah is the point of the Messiah!

The commandment to obey a prophet is not a "prophecy" of the chr*stian "messiah" and can only be made to be so by assuming the truth of chr*stianity from the outset. Furthermore, as I have pointed out previously, The Torah in Parashat Re'eh warns that sometimes G-d sends false prophets, even allowing their prophecies to come to pass, for the express purpose of seeing if Israel will follow that prophet or else (as He wants) reject that prophet and stick with the Torah.

The question at hand is, does the Torah and Tanakh point to a 1st century arrival of the Messiah?

No it is not. The messiah is not the heart of Judaism--Torah is! Your assertion is merely the claim of chr*stianity. The claims of chr*stianity are not "self-evidently" true. Furthermore, your whole worldview is based not on authentic chr*stianity but Protestantism, which never existed until the sixteenth century. The contents of your FReeper home page are classical antinomian "loophole" Protestantism: G-d demands perfection or else He is compelled to damn the sinner, no one is perfect, therefore all must be damned, therefore G-d (chas vechalilah!) "incarnated" and vicariously damned Himself. I'll let you and kosta50 discuss how this differs from the original chr*stian teaching.

When we use the Tanakh in places like Ezekiel 4, Jeremiah 25, and Leviticus 26 and we take the Word of God literally as shown in http://www.direct.ca/trinity/y3nf.html we see that not only are the Prophets on an equal footing with the words recorded by Moses as from God per instructions given face to face to Moses whose eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated in Deuteronomy 18:21-22, but also, Israel’s birth in 1948 and 1967 were foretold.

I'm sorry, but this simply is not so, and there is absolutely no logic to your "proof" whatsoever. The Torah is supreme over and above all other revelation--past, present, or future. The Torah was written by G-d Himself before the universe was created. The Prophets and Ketuvim were not. Every prophecy, every prophet, must be judged by the Torah. Whether the prophet works miracles is irrelevant. Even if a prophecy he makes comes true, this may still be merely a "test" from HaShem. Your assertion is merely the chr*stian claim, and I have pointed out many times that the chr*stian claim is not "self-evidently" true.

Judaism was already here when chr*stianity arose. It was based on the Revelation of G-d at Sinai. Even chr*stianity acknowledges this. Therefore it has nothing to prove and sits in judgment on all who claim to be the messiah. And as I keep telling you (and which you keep ignoring because it contradicts your dogmatic assumptions), Judaism isn't about the Messiah. Judaism is the Torah. The Messiah is merely the facilitator--perhaps the ultimate facilitator--for Torah observance. So your assertion that the question is whether the "messiah" arrived two thousand years ago is an error based on chr*stian assumptions, not the self-evident message of the Torah itself.

Tell you what: you let me know when you find a verse in the Torah that teaches that it (the Torah) is merely meant to be temporary. And it must make that claim, not merely command obedience to a prophet or state that at a certain time the tribe of Judah will lose its national sovereignty. Where does the Torah claim to be temporary?

108 posted on 12/01/2009 7:56:35 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Lo' Ya`aqov ye'amer `od shimkha ki-'im Yisra'el; ki sariyta `im-'Eloqim ve`im-'anashim vatukhal.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Will get back to you.


110 posted on 12/03/2009 2:13:29 AM PST by ROTB ("By any means necessary" is evil. See what God thinks of "rising oceans" in Jeremiah 5:22)
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