Posted on 09/24/2009 8:55:54 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
Not all that was done by an increasingly Romanized system qualifies as the church. As for the charges, early Jewish Christians easily found in Christ the fulfillment of texts as Is. 53, with Christ being both the scapegoat and commanded atonement of Lv. 16, which the predicted destruction of the temple abolished, and souls, as now, experientially realized forgiveness and the life-giving power of the Holy Spirit thru true repentance and faith in Him. To God be the glory!
Our conversation is done. I have posted in good faith without name calling and just because you don’t like my posts doesn’t give you the right to make personal attacks, saying I have born false witness, calling me deceptive, ignorant and cultist.
>They don’t understand that G-d, by His Blessed Will, intentionally created this lowest of all worlds with all its imperfections (even before the sin in the Garden). They have never heard of the first sin in history being committed by the ground before man was even created, or of the envy of the moon, or that HaShem Himself mandated a “sin offering” in His own behalf for having reduced the moon. They do not understand that G-d created the yetzer hara` and placed it within Adam before the commandment not to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge had even been given.<
Thank God they are “Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.” (Titus 1:14)
From the Babylonian Talmud comes these warnings about demons, sex, and epileptic children (most from http://www.seekgod.ca/embracnotal.htm)
Gittin 70a “On coming from a privy (outdoor toilet) a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long enough to walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that time; if he does, his children will be epileptic.”
Gittin 69a To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix with honey and eat it.
Gittin 69b. To heal the disease of pleurisy (”catarrh”) a Jew should “take the excrement of a white dog and knead it with balsam, but if he can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dog’s excrement as it loosens the limbs. (Michael A. Hoffman II & Alan R. Critchley)
b. Erubuin 18b: Rabbi Jeremia ben Eleazer said, “During those years (after their expulsion from the Garden) in which Adam, the first man Was separated from Eve, he became the father of ghouls and demons and lilin.” Rabbi Meir said, “Adam, the first man, being very pious and finding that he has caused death to come into the world, sat fasting for 130 years, and separated himself from his wife for 130 years, and wore fig vines for 130 years. His fathering of evil spirits, referred to here, came as a result of wet dreams.”
Shab. 151b states:
” One may not sleep alone in a house, for Lilith takes hold of whoever sleeps alone in the house.”
Baba Bathra 73-b continues with:
Rabba bar bar Hana said, “I once saw Hormin, a son of Lilith, running on the battlements of Mahoza…. When the demonic government heard of it, they killed him [for showing himself].”
Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden.
God had set Adam to name every beast, bird and other living thing. When they passed before him in pairs, male and female, Adam-being already like a twenty-year-old man-felt jealous of their loves, and though he tried coupling with each female in turn, found no satisfaction in the act. He therefore cried: ‘Every creature but I has a proper matel’, and prayed God would remedy this injustice. Gen. Rab. 17.4; B. Yebamot 632.
More on lilith here: http://gnosis.org/lilith.htm
Chullin 59b exists as a discussion about a giant deer and a giant lion which are both originated in a mythical forest called “Dvei Ilai”. The deer is called “keresh”. The lion, called “tigris”, is said to be so big that there is space of 9 feet between the lobes of his lung. The Roman Caesar Hadrian once asked a Rabbi to show him this lion, since every lion can be killed, but the Rabbi refused and pointed out that this is not a normal lion. The Roman Caesar insisted, so the Rabbi called for the lion of “Dvei Ilai”. He roared once from a distance of 400 amot and all the city walls of Rome tumbled down.
Sanhedrin 90a
mishnah. all Israel have a portion in the world to come,29 for it is written, thy people are all righteous; they shall inherit the land for ever,death is not real (385, 388)
“Sanhedrin 90a. Those who read the New Testament (”uncanonical books”) will have no portion in the world to come.” http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_90.html
This Religion Forum is labeled “ecumenical” meaning no antagonism is allowed on this thread at all.
Moreover, instead of arising from a common religious tradition, the "golden rule" can be seen as a common sense way to maintain social peace, just as most all societies forbid unjustified killings among themselves. And Confucianism is less a religion than a moral and ethical philosophy.
I assume you mean calling his posts what they were shown to be. I should have left out the terms then.
The purpose of this thread is to explain to Orthodox Jews that Fundamentalists do not “hate” them. It is not for the purpose of chr*stians “proving” the claims of their religion by ceaselessly quoting them. Thank you for understanding.
Please forgive this tardy reply.
The purpose of my vanity was not a political issue at all (Fundamentalist chr*stians who support Israel), but to deal with the fact that such people find themselves partly in two religions and fully belonging to neither. As a result they have a deep and sincere love for Jews and Israel that even apparently the most "fundamentalist" Orthodox Jew simply cannot understand or appreciate. For this reason I sought, as best as my poor ability could allow, to explain Fundamentalist Protestant theology to Orthodox Jews so they would see that FP's "harsh" views about the damnation of all "non-chr*stians" ("non-chr*stians" meaning all those who never received the "vaccination," not necessarily those who practice chr*stianity or are part of chr*stian culture) are actually, from their perspective, quite logical and held without a shred of hatred for anyone.
I no longer share the chr*stian religious views of Fundamentalist Protestants but ethnoculturally I shall always be one of them, and I am very hurt and disappointed that the FP understanding of a "lost" world out of which only certain individuals (those who take advantage of the "vaccination") are saved is so misunderstood by even the most traditional Orthodox Jews as "hatred."
Unfortunately, even the most right wing Orthodox Jews sound like liberals when they talk about chr*stianity. Let's face it, for right wing Jews, chr*stianity is communism (the Ultimate Enemy). The obsession with chr*stian "intolerance" and its soteriology--however "harsh" it may be--is standing in the way of cooperation between the two groups on important common goals.
Having once been a Fundamentalist Protestant I simply do not and cannot share the antipathy Jews have for their religious beliefs. (They think I'm going to "hell?" Big whoop!) That Orthodox Jews who are even to the Right of Fundamentalist Protestants on some issues (the truth of midrashim, geocentrism, etc.) continue to line up with the Left because of an antipathy to chr*stian soteriology is short-sighted doing incredible damage to our common causes.
Wake up, Israel. It doesn't matter where members of false religions think you're going after you die. Stop obsessing on it while the world is burning down around you. That is my message. I am sorry if I failed to communicate it properly.
Don’t remember if I pinged you to this vanity thread of mine or not. Well, just in case I didn’t . . .
I think there are a couple of 'views' in this. One are those Jews that just want to 'be' tolerant. Whatever religion anyone wants to practice is ok with them. Then there are those that don't try to convert anyone and don't want anyone trying to convert them and to them chr*stianity IS the ultimate enemy.
Having said that, in one of my previous posts I posted an excerpt from the council of Nicea with very derogatory comments about Jews. After having seen that I had asked my mom if she recalled any of the priests or nuns expressing those types of views when she was going to the catholic schools and she told me 'yes'.
There are probably several generations that got raised with that type of mindset.
For the most part, as an adult I haven't heard people say that Jews were more evil than others, but, I have heard people say that the Jews were cursed because they were hard headed and too stubborn to accept j*sus.
I'm pretty sure that you have already read 'The Path of the Righteous Gentile', but here are a couple of excerpts for those that haven't:
16. It is idolatry to consume a food or a drink with the idea that it is the substance of a god and that the person consuming them is therefore assimilating the substance of the god into his own being. (Note: The Children of Noah have historically fallen into idolatrous practices because of a lack of discernment between Elokah and Elokut, God and Godliness. One can say that all of creation is Godly because it all contains God's life force, but to say that anything of creation is God is idolatry.)
27. The three chief idolatrous images in the world are:
a. The dragon, which is a derivative of the primordial serpent.[32]
b. A full figure of a man offering the beholder something from the palm of his hand.[33] (This image is commonly found today in front of certain churches.)[34]
c. A woman nursing an infant. This is the idolatrous perversion of Eve, the mother of all mankind. It became the symbol of the queen of heaven and is an image that still pervades numerous cultures and religions.[35]
(Note: There is an idolatrous group in Jerusalem that brings tourists to its house of worship. The door leading to the room where the idol is kept is extremely low so that anyone entering the room has to bend down to enter, thus forcing each tourist who enters to appear as if he or she were bowing to the idol.)
There's more of course, some pertaining to priests wearing crosses, but, I think we can see why some people might just choose to avoid as much contact as possible.
FP's are proselytary because their religious worldview compels them to be so. While not proselytizers for Judaism, Jews are nevertheless commanded to "compel" the nations of the world to accept the Noachide Laws. This is hardly z*r*astrian "tolerance." And as I said, if you want "tolerance," take up polytheism. "Tolerant monotheism" is a contradiction in terms.
I was just pointing out why some Jews might not want to ‘get involved’ with those they consider idolatrous.
Understood. But these same people will get involved with liberal chr*stians and Roman Catholics. For some reason the most Biblically-oriented and perhaps least idolatrous of all chr*stians are alone not to be touched with a ten foot pole.
I simply saying someone from another religion believing you're going to hell is no big deal and I don't know why anyone treats it as such.
There are far worse things in the world than having someone believe you're "going to hell." I don't know why that's so hard to see.
I'm not so sure that they are. As I mentioned earlier I think there are multiple factions and probably more than the two I mentioned and I suppose their 'lines' may blur depending on the issue at hand.
There are some 'chr*stians' that don't consider other factions part of 'chr*stianity' and condemn them to hell.
Understood. But these same people will get involved with liberal chr*stians and Roman Catholics. For some reason the most Biblically-oriented and perhaps least idolatrous of all chr*stians are alone not to be touched with a ten foot pole.
I'm not so sure that they are. As I mentioned earlier I think there are multiple factions and probably more than the two I mentioned and I suppose their 'lines' may blur depending on the issue at hand.
I see little reason for continuing the argument, but I am referring to Jews--including, unfortunately, Orthodox Jews--whose only concern in "tolerance"--a characteristic not in line with the basis of Monotheism to begin with. Such people will cooperate with and heap praises on the most idolatrous and most anti-Biblical chr*stians for no other reason than that they don't believe they are "going to hell" and don't proselytize. One would think that after all Jews have been through the past two millenia a tract under a windshield wiper or a drawled "er you SAVED???" would rank way down on the "things I never want to happen" list.
There are some 'chr*stians' that don't consider other factions part of 'chr*stianity' and condemn them to hell.
Those "intolerant" factions of chr*stianity are much more consistent than the "tolerant" ones. What's the point of "overthrowing" the Torah (G-d forbid!) if you're not going to require everyone to convert to the religion that "overthrew" it (G-d forbid!)?
First of all, we don't know what they are thinking. We can only go by their actions. I don't see it as much different that those that claim to be devout chr*stians but vote for or align themselves with pro abort candidates or other views that are denounced in the Hebrew Scriptures.
I guess that is why we are each responsible for our own souls. You can't make somebody feel or think something that is not in their heart/soul.
G-d knows who His children are and will deal with the others in due time.
No amount of finger pointing is going to matter. G-d is the One and He will decide who did what right and who didn't. jmo
Who was Jesus Christ? How do you describe his character and nature?
I'll take a try at this.
We are told that j*sus is a prophet: Matthew 13: 57, Matthew 21:11, Matthew 21:46, Luke 13:33, Luke 24:19, John 6:14, Acts3:22, Acts 7:37
We are told that j*sus is a MAN: John 8:40, Act 2:22
We are explicitly told that he is a man, and a prophet. j*sus never explicitly says that he is G-d. Why do people accept vague verses over explicit statements?
If there were ever a place for him to explicitly state that he was G-d, it would have been in John 8:40, but he doesn't, because he was not G-d.
John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God:
Some theories suggest that j*sus was a compilation of several people over time. If he did exist, then he was most likely a prophet, a G-dfearing man sent by G-d to try and get Jews/Israelites that were assimilated into other cultures through capitivity and marriage and gone after the false religions of other cultures with their various traditions, and bring them back to the religion that G-d gave humanity after the flood and reiterated at Sinai. The very religion that j*sus was taught, lived by and tried to teach to others.
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