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To: joe fonebone; Dr. Eckleburg

Here is the problem with your post. You wrote, or quoted:

It is very necessary to understand what the Church means by such doctrines and what it does not mean. First of all the Church recognizes Jesus as our only redeemer—plain and simple. Only God could make up for an offense against His divinity. When Jesus, the second Person of the Blessed Trinity, became man, He used the services of several human beings. He used prophets, the last of whom was His cousin, John the Baptist. He used St. Joseph as His foster father to protect Him and be a father to Him in his formative years. Most of all, He used Mary as His mother who gave birth to Him, nursed Him, and nurtured Him as a child. All of these people co-operated with Him and His mission of salvation. He alone was the redeemer, but they co-operated with Him in His work of redemption. In varying degrees they all could be called co-redeemers because of such co-operation. But because of her unique role and the degree of her co-operation, Mary is singled out. In all of humanity, God singled her out for a truly sublime role. Nursing almighty God at her breast is beyond our ability to fully appreciate. Yet thousands of Christians since the Protestant reformation have completely ignored such sublimity.

What is said of co-redemptrix is also true of co-mediatrix. Because these terms can be highly mis-leading, the Church has not formalized them in any official doctrinal way. (See artical: http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/ORMARIA2.HTM) Nevertheless, God is the one who singled Mary out for the unique role in salvation that she has. She did not seek out such distinction. It is important to remember the high praise Jesus lavished on St. John the Baptist. Yet his mission was not nearly so exalted as Mary’s. Jesus worked His first miracle at her request. All she needed to say was: “They have no wine.” He understood exactly what she wanted. He could have taken care of the matter on His own. But He chose to have His mother’s intercession be a part of the mix. The miracle wasn’t any less significant because of her part in it. On the contrary, she shows us how accessible He is to our needs. To truly appreciate Mary is to appreciate her Son all the more.

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.


But this is contradicted in scripture.

You say “All of these people co-operated with Him and His mission of salvation. He alone was the redeemer, but they co-operated with Him in His work of redemption. In varying degrees they all could be called co-redeemers...”

When the Catholic Church starts referring to darn near everyone Jesus knew as “co-redeemers”, this argument will make sense. Until then, it exalts Mary.

You recognize this in writing, “But because of her unique role and the degree of her co-operation, Mary is singled out...Nursing almighty God at her breast is beyond our ability to fully appreciate.”

But when a woman told that to Jesus (””Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!”), Jesus replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

Your claim in contrary to the clear teaching of Jesus in the Scriptures. “Yet thousands of Christians since the Protestant reformation have completely ignored such sublimity” - as Jesus taught us!

You write, “It is important to remember the high praise Jesus lavished on St. John the Baptist. Yet his mission was not nearly so exalted as Mary’s.”

Yet Jesus DID praise John the Baptist, and specifically diverted praise AWAY from Mary. Indeed, there is no account of Jesus calling Mary “Mother”. He always addresses her as “Woman”. If we follow the example of Christ, we WILL praise John the Baptist, and refrain from praising Mary.

You write “ All she needed to say was: “They have no wine.” He understood exactly what she wanted. He could have taken care of the matter on His own. But He chose to have His mother’s intercession be a part of the mix.”

Actually, Jesus replied, “Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come.” IOW, Jesus tells her NOT to direct him.

The footnote in the New American Bible says, “[4] This verse may seek to show that Jesus did not work miracles to help his family and friends, as in the apocryphal gospels. Woman: a normal, polite form of address, but unattested in reference to one’s mother. Cf also John 19:26. How does your concern affect me?: literally, “What is this to me and to you?”—a Hebrew expression of either hostility (Judges 11:12; 2 Chron 35:21; 1 Kings 17:18) or denial of common interest (Hosea 14:9; 2 Kings 3:13). Cf Mark 1:24; 5:7 used by demons to Jesus. My hour has not yet come: the translation as a question (”Has not my hour now come?”), while preferable grammatically and supported by Greek Fathers, seems unlikely from a comparison with John 7:6, 30. The “hour” is that of Jesus’ passion, death, resurrection, and ascension (John 13:1).”

Far from CHOOSING his mother’s intercession, he specifically REJECTS it!

The problem isn’t that Protestants hate Mary. We don’t. The problem is that Catholics give Mary a role Jesus himself rejected, as recorded in Scripture.


207 posted on 09/22/2009 10:31:40 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers
Far from CHOOSING his mother’s intercession, he specifically REJECTS it!

The problem isn’t that Protestants hate Mary. We don’t. The problem is that Catholics give Mary a role Jesus himself rejected, as recorded in Scripture

AMEN!

212 posted on 09/22/2009 10:54:09 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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