Oh, I’ll take your word for Hades, but you haven’t answered my question:
YOU: “In the example you gave, the correct translation is: “The rich man also died, and was buried: and in HADES he lifted up his eyes, being in torments,”
My question is this: Have we established that being in Hades is being in torments?
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The Bible divides Hades into two compartments. One for the righteous and one for the unrighteous. The unrighteous do experience torment in Hades. The righteous do not (or did not, because the righteous went from Hades to Heaven after Christ’s death and ressurection.
The question is which compartment did Jesus visit and why? Did he visit the Hades that held the righteous (where there is no torment) to preach the gospel to them, or did he visit the Hades compartment holding the unrighteous to bear punishment?
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom[d] also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. 1 Pet 3:18-20
But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. 1 Pet 4:5-6
This is why it[a] says:
“When he ascended on high,
he led captives in his train
and gave gifts to men.”[b] (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[c]? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) Eph 4:8-10
It seems evident that Christ descended into Hades (”the lower, earthly regions”) but why did he descend. The two passages for 1 Peter talk about preaching, not Christ suffering. Unless you can find some scripture I’m missing, it seems clear to me at least that Christ descended to preach to the captives in Hades, not to suffer.
“Unless you can find some scripture I’m missing, it seems clear to me at least that Christ descended to preach to the captives in Hades, not to suffer.”
I agree, as Victor not as slave.
The Cross is sufficient, not some continual punishment as envisioned by Calvin.
Christ words on the Cross, “It is finished” mean exactly that.
I have to wonder if Calvin actually saw the Cross as sufficient. From his words, it doesn’t appear so.