Posted on 09/21/2009 5:51:47 AM PDT by Colofornian
The 8th Article of Faith states: "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God."
In the title page of the Book of Mormon, we read, "...if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God."
Lastly, we read the words of Moroni shortly after he took over his father's record: "Condemn me not because of mine imperfection, neither my father, because of his imperfection, neither them who have written before him ... we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the reformed Egyptian, ... and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record" (Mormon 9:30-31).
As emphasized repeatedly in this series, anything with which man is involved -- even if directed by God -- will be imperfect, fallible and, to some degree, errant. Neither ancient nor modern prophets were, or are, perfect, and the scriptures they've produced will likewise fall short of inerrancy. Fallible human prophets and errant scripture can still lead us to God despite any imperfections.
As explained in previous issues, prophets must communicate revelation -- whether in general-conference addresses or when writing scripture -- according to their own language and their limited understanding of this world and the eternities.
All language is inherently ambiguous -- all have words or phrases that can mean different things to different readers. Take the word "cleave" for example. It can mean to cut something apart -- as in "to cleave a diamond into two smaller stones" -- but it can also mean to cause two things to adhere together, as in "therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh" (Genesis 2:24).
Or how about "critical"? We can be critical of someone else's views, or we can say the Bible is critical to Christianity. The context, time frame, and cultural and other variables can affect how a word is understood. The Bible has gone through various translations and each translator made determinations about the meaning of words based on his or her familiarity with the words and how they would have been used by the specific author. Errors are bound to happen.
Some might be tempted to think that because the Book of Mormon came directly from God to Joseph Smith there shouldn't be any errors. This, however, is a naive assumption. An exact word-for-word translation from one language to another typically yields little more than gibberish.
Even for Joseph to have understood the text, the Lord would have had to translate the Nephite words into something that made sense to Joseph. And it's important to remember that the purpose of translating the Book of Mormon into English was to teach spiritual truths that can cause individuals to receive personal revelation, not to reveal historical truths about the ancient inhabitants of the Americas (more on this in the next issue).
Even if God would have conveyed a perfect text to Joseph Smith, any reader whose language, culture or understanding of English words varied from Joseph's Smith's would -- on their own reading of the text -- naturally misinterpret some passages of text.
What does this mean for us who read the imperfect scriptures? The word of God need not be perfect in order to invoke the power of drawing us closer to God. In Doctrine and Covenants section 128, for example, Joseph Smith quotes Malachi 4:5-6 exactly as it is quoted in the King James Version Bible. In verse 18 the prophet Joseph added: "I might have rendered a plainer translation to this, but it is sufficiently plain to suit my purpose as it stands."
We should take the same approach to the scriptures as we take with the prophets -- we should seek the guidance of the Spirit. While the word of God may contain errors, and while we may not fully understand every nuance of every phrase, word or term in the scriptures, the Holy Spirit has the power to help us understand the word of God in its role of drawing us closer to the divine and opening our hearts to personal revelation.
At last,
I shall give myself to the desert again, that I, in its golden dust, may be blown from a barren peak broadcast over the sun-lands. If you should desire some news of me, go ask the little horned toad whose home is the dust, or seek it among the fragrant sage, or question the mountain juniper, and, by their silence, they will truly inform you.
--Maynard Dixon
Meant to ping you as well for the above.
Then you can just call me the court jester : ) I don't try to be clever, I just try to point out the obvious. Some people have a real hard time seeing what is right in front of them.
You are confusing the laws of men with the laws of nature. There is no truth in the laws of men, everything is arbitrary.
Thank you, finally you admit it. Finally you acknowledge you have a hard time seeing what is front of you. Now don't you feel better?
I am glad you agree : )
You're a born againer aren't you Elsie? You get up in revivals and speak in tongues and prophecy don't you? Next time you go to Church why don't you get us a prophecy regarding Obama's financial plan? I would like to know what the Feds are going to do and when? That should be a piece of cake compared to all the end of the world stuff wouldn't you think?
You've shot wide then, because the obvious is that there is fulfilled prophecy. To deny it is to call the God you claim you don't believe in a liar.
Some people have a real hard time seeing what is right in front of them.
Speaking from personal experience, I see.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Open your eyes, LG.
Ahh, you are correct. There is absolutely no difference between prophecy and fortune telling, except that fortune tellers, if they are vague enough, occasionally get lucky.
If I predict heads on a toss of a coin, occasionally (about half the time) my prediction will come true : ) Prophecy for some odd reason never seems to get it right.
(Does your arbitrary assignment include your absolute sounding assessment that "everything is arbitrary")
I'm telling you, you relativists are some of the most dogmatic people I know.
And you not only want to state what you believe in absolute terms about a so-called relative world, but you export it & impose it upon others as if we need to bow down to your absolutes.
How many faces do you wear, LeGrande?
I will certainly admit that it is much easier for me to see what I expect to see.
All the while growing up, I just assumed (saw) that the Bible was full of prophecies that had been fulfilled. It never even occurred to me to even examine (see) them. When I actually took a look at the prophecies I was stunned, there were very few actual prophecies and none of them had been fulfilled.
Now I see a little clearer than I did, but I often find that my ‘sight’ is guided by my expectations. I know well the truth in the adage about hiding something in plain sight.
I am surprised you apparently do not know the difference between prophecy and fortune telling
Which ones?
That is in regards to the laws of Men, context is your friend. But yes even in a general sense, there are no absolutes, and no that is not a self contradicting statement.
I'm telling you, you relativists are some of the most dogmatic people I know.
Dogma is a belief held without evidence. I have evidence to support my beliefs. You on the other hand have nothing more than faith. That is the definition of dogma.
And you not only want to state what you believe in absolute terms about a so-called relative world, but you export it & impose it upon others as if we need to bow down to your absolutes.
Once again, there are no absolutes. The evidence clearly indicates that that statement is true.
How many faces do you wear, LeGrande?
I strive to be consistent. If you see different faces it is probably more indicative of your changing perspective, than my changing faces. Even your question indicates that you agree with me that there are no absolutes.
I have never said I am smart. And again there is no practical difference between prophecy and fortune telling other than the fact that the prophet is always wrong and the fortune teller sometimes gets lucky with their predictions.
Yaaaaaawwwwwwnnn
Which prophecy has never been fulfilled? No prophecy has ever been fulfilled.
Christ said ""Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
That was a very definitive prophecy, basically stating that all prophecy would be fulfilled before the last member of that generation died. Obviously everyone of that generation died 2000 years ago and none of the prophecies were fulfilled. Clearly that falsifies all of the prophecies in the Bible.
I’m with svcw. Tell us which ones you consider actual prophecies that have not been fulfilled.
And I would add to that, why you consider them unfulfilled.
Fine. Provide it.
And while your at it, provide the evidence why you think that the prophecies in Scripture, mostly in the Gospels, which specifically listed as being filled, by the writers of the Gospels, weren't.
What is your evidence that they were unfulfilled?
Yes, it is.
Once again, there are no absolutes. The evidence clearly indicates that that statement is true.
Are you absolutely sure?
If it is true that there are no absolutes, then your statement is false, because it is not absolute.
If it not true that there are no absolutes, then your statement is false, because there is one absolute, which means there aren't none.
If there are no absolutes, that includes your statement and you have, in effect, said nothing.
Perhaps you could also enlighten us as to why we should take your word for anything on any matter. What makes you right and the rest of the world wrong?
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