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To: DelphiUser
Actually, he Did, He Saw God the Father and the son, at the same time. That takes the grand daddy of all creeds, The Nicene Creed to the Mat and does not let it up.

If I read your post right, you think that "at the same time" somehow contradicts the Nicene Creed and the understanding of the Trinity?

We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.


102 posted on 09/20/2009 8:05:25 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (...We never faced anything like this...we only fought humans.)
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To: Alex Murphy
If I read your post right, you think that "at the same time" somehow contradicts the Nicene Creed and the understanding of the Trinity?
We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
The bolded section would preclude God the Father and Jesus Christ being in the same place side by side because they are the same substance. The two ideas of God and Christ appearing in two separate bodies and the Nicene creed are incompatible. I have had this very conversation with priests of many religions, and trust me everyone ends up not wanting Jesus to be God's son, but God the father himself. Oneness through out the Bible is not a oneness of substance. The Nicene creed makes that jump, for no Biblical reason. The Greek influence on the beliefs of the church was that nothing corporeal can be all powerful or eternal and thus they created a mystery, something that cannot be comprehended, or understood and told people that was the beauty of it.

I am truly sorry, but the Trinity is a lie. A well meaning, earnestly believed lie. A lie that was told long ago by people long dead, but a lie nonetheless.
105 posted on 09/20/2009 9:24:06 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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