How to testify

Lds Church News ^ | Sept. 19, 2009

[novemberslady]

Colofornian,
I'm trying to be polite to you.
goodnight (:

[Monkey Face]

Nana...Jesus loves us all unconditionally: past, present and future.

He is our Savior and our Guide, and no matter what, He will be with us....

He forgives and allows us to choose and there can be no greater love than that.

[Tennessee Nana]

As I said, I don’t debate religion. Some enjoy that, I don’t.
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Those 60,000 mormon missionaries who knock on doors and debate religion...

What about them...

What does noevemberslady say to them when she finds them on her doorstep, arguing ???

has you written to the Morg in SLC and complained about them ???

Thjose mormopn missionaries enjoy debating religion..

They enjoy debating religion so much that they pay for the opportunity to argue with me and other Christians for two long years...

[DelphiUser]

IOW
...is your Jesus a savior AND a saved being?
No, Jesus was perfect, he is the savior.
...is your Jesus one savior among many?
That depends on how you define a savor, Jesus is "The Savior", but a missionary is a savior in that he goes out and brings souls to Christ. Maybe I'm making this too complicated. Jesus is my savior, and the only one I need, clear?
...is your Jesus one god among many?
Jesus is my only God, and he and his father are one in the way the Bible says they are one God.
...is your Jesus one who can be prayed to directly? (3 Nephi 19:6-26)
You can pray to whomever you want, you have agency. In the Bible and the Book of Mormon, Jesus taught men to pray to God the Father.
...is your Jesus one who can receive worship from you "with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul" (2 Nephi 25:29)???
The goal is definitely to worship God in the entirety of our heart might mind and strength, few if any of us accomplish that task.

...And if you adhere to 2 Nephi 25:29, how many gods do you worship whole-souled? Whole-strength? Whole-minde? Whole-might?

One, Jesus gave an analogy on this oneness in John 17:21-22

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

even as we are one, the Goal is to be one with God even sa Jesus is one with God.

It always seems to come down to the belief by "orthodox" Christianity that the Trinity is a correct doctrine, even thought it was fashioned by Constantine, a pagan Roman emperor, who fashioned the doctrine to facilitate a political healing of his fractured empire. I have a lot of info on this on My page, complete with sources from the Catholic encyclopedia on line, IMHO, everyone should go and read the sources, even if they don't like my conclusions, at least then they will be educated on the topic.

[Monkey Face]

Bite me!

[Alex Murphy]

Bite me!

But I don't like sour or tart food!

[novemberslady]

Tennessee Nana
The only people who come to my door trying to preach to me are Jehovah's Witnesses.
I send them on their way.

Hope you guys enjoy your discussion.

[Tennessee Nana]

He is our Savior and our Guide, and no matter what, He will be with us....
____________________________________________

Nope..

Jeus is not called a “guide” in the Bible..

Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to be our guide...

It pays to READ the Bible...

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will GUIDE you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 16:13

[DelphiUser]

BTW.. you claim you love Jesus...

The pejorative tone of your post is most off putting to Lurkers, you might want to tone it down a bit.

Please tells us what you know of the way He thinks of you...

Jesus Loves me so much that he was willing to suffer for all my sins, and then die for me. How Can I do anything but love him in return?

How does God feel towards you ???

God loves me so much that he allowed me to come down to earth and become more like him, then knowing I was weak, allowed his only begotten son to come and give his life for me. No man deserves the love that the Godhead has shown us, they united in their love for me, have planned to give me every opportunity to return to them and inherit their kingdom if I will just accept and obey their commandments. I would that I was a better Christian than the poor example I am now... This love has been extended to every man, which I believe does not lessen it's power one bit.

[Monkey Face]

Golly! Nothing sour here...tart is in the mouth of the beholder!

If you want to discuss things that are esoteric, transcendental, or ethereal, Freepmail me....

[ejonesie22]

Wow,

What a logically and reasoned response you received...

LOL...

[Alex Murphy]

If you want to discuss things that are esoteric, transcendental, or ethereal, Freepmail me....

In addition to not liking tart or sour foods, I'm allergic to baloney.

[Tennessee Nana]

Jesus loves us all unconditionally:
______________________________________________

Yes, in this you are right...

Unconditionally means that it is not something we can earn, or work for...

Jesus loves the Hitlers of the world just as much as He loves the Mother Teresas...

He died on that cross for the Hitlers and the Mother Teresas...

When it comes to the cross, God did not play favorites...

Jesus did not die just for the Hindus and not for the Buddists...

he did not just die for the Heavan’s Gate crowd and leave out the mormons...

He did not just die for the Christians and leave out the Jews...

Everyone is included ... all our sins were nailed to that cross...

Jesus took on the sins of THE WORLD when He died on the cross...

He loved us so much that he agreed to be separated from His Father in order to save THE WORLD...

[Colofornian]

Interesting, in your testimony you spend more time explaing why we differ than time spent explaining why Jesus is your savior.

Did Joseph Smith in his original pimply-faced "first vision" give us an eternal testimony "explaining why we differ...and why we were wrong" as to what makes ANY of our creeds so putrid to the Mormon god? (No!)
Did Smith in that vision give us an eternal testimony "explaining why we differ...and why" as to what makes our believers 100% corrupt -- and Mormons NOT corrupt? (No!)
Did Smith in that vision give us an eternal testimony "explaining" where & why Presbyterianism -- which he mentioned by name -- was not "true?" (No!)

So you hold me -- somebody Mormons regard as an open "apostate" -- tho I was never Lds...to a higher standard than your own founding "prophet?" (Really???)

I do not see Jesus as a Celestial Santa Claus, who gives his believers salvation, just becasue they believed, but because they believed enough to do something about it.

Well, then have a fit with Romans 6:23 (not me): For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Have a fit with Paul & Silas (not me): He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I DO to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household." (Acts 16:30-31)

Have a fit with Jesus (not me): Then they asked him, "What must WE DO to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The work OF GOD is this: to believe in the one he has sent." (John 6:28-29)

(Jesus wouldn't even let the questioners take credit for their work -- He said even to believe goes ONLY to God's credit! Paul reiterated that in 1 Cor. 12:3-- giving the Holy Ghost 100% credit for believing in Him)

And if you don't think it's 100% God's grace and 100% God's gift, have a fit with Paul, not me (see Eph. 2:8-9).

And the next time you don't want to treat your earthly father as an earthly "Santa Claus," then just start paying him back for all the gifts he gives to you IN THE FUTURE -- in the present -- in the past. (Otherwise, you wouldn't want him to start resembling that "Celestial Santa Claus" you so despise).

Jesus Gave Commandments, God always has. Jesus did not give these commands because he liked to hear himself speak, but becasue he expected us to actually believe enough to keep his commands.

Well, you started to get on the right course at the end of that statement when you said "actually believe enough to keep his commands" -- Another way of saying that is "faith works."

(If we were to have a careful Bible study together, I could point out all the verses that show that we're not expected to carry out those commandments according to our own wisdom, our own skill, our own energy, our own anything -- That's what the Holy Ghost living in us as a temple is all about -- something that gets short-shrift among Mormons because their "temple focus" is almost all 100% building and 100% ritual)

Bottom line. When we obey, we don't get the credit or glory. I thought Jesus has already made that crystal clear: So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.'" (Luke 17:10)

DU...you and I are mere servants. Unglorified ones at that. Until He lifts us from this earth and GIVES the 100% gift of glory. Anything we did in this lifetime, as long as wasn't done to audition for godhood & self-glory or done to parade before men, was merely what unworthy servants do. Mormons are trained to focus exclusively on worthiness. Jesus wants repentant, self-acknowledge 'unworthy servants.'"

Won't you join me, a poor, sinful, unworthy servant?

[Monkey Face]

*kof*
If Jesus doesn’t guide us, (the Gospels) then what are we doing here? He loves us, He cares for us, He has given us parables and the Beatitudes to guide us.

[Tennessee Nana]

you might want to tone it down a bit.
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I might but I dont want to...

You either KNOW that the God of the Bible loves you...

Or you dont know...

[Tennessee Nana]

If Jesus doesn’t guide us, (the Gospels) then what are we doing here?
___________________________________________

AHHHH, I’m not the FReeper who said that...

You need to send this to Jesus ...He was the one who posted..

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will GUIDE you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 16:13

I just cut and pasted what He said into this thread...

If you think Jesus is wrong, then you take it up with Him...

[Tennessee Nana]

The only people who come to my door trying to preach to me are Jehovah’s Witnesses.
__________________________________________________

I havent had them for a while...

When I lived in another state the JWs and the mormons fought over me...

Each would knock on my door and diss the other...

Who got me in the after life...

Talk about your average “debate” about religion...

It was hilarious...and them all so serious...

Whose slave I would be became quite a fight between the two cults for months...even years...

ROFLMBO

[Monkey Face]

Jesus is NEVER wrong!

Jesus puts people in our lives who can influence us in some way. He loves us unconditionally. When I read the posts here, I understand that there are lessons to be learned, whether they are for me or for those who lurk or those who post.

I am always open to those who have an insight into a precept I couldn’t grasp. And I am so VERY grateful!!

So thank you for who you are and what you say!

[DelphiUser]

CF: Did Joseph Smith in his original pimply-faced "first vision" give us an eternal testimony "explaining why we differ...and why we were wrong" as to what makes ANY of our creeds so putrid to the Mormon god? (No!)

Actually, he Did, He Saw God the Father and the son, at the same time. That takes the grand daddy of all creeds, The Nicene Creed to the Mat and does not let it up. So yeah, He didn't name it by name, but everyone in his day "got it".

CF: Did Smith in that vision give us an eternal testimony "explaining why we differ...and why" as to what makes our believers 100% corrupt -- and Mormons NOT corrupt? (No!)

Yes, he did, God was re-establishing his truth, those who accept are not following corrupted doctrine, those who stay with corrupted doctrine... Again, I think it's pretty clear. Are you just upset that he didn't spell it out for you? Well being offended by God is just dumb in my book. Read the Book of Mormon, Pray about it, and get god's witness, it's a simple formula.

CF: Did Smith in that vision give us an eternal testimony "explaining" where & why Presbyterianism -- which he mentioned by name -- was not "true?" (No!)

Presbyterians, are (correct me if I am wrong on this) Trinitarians. He mentioned them by name because his mom was trying to get him to join. It could have just as easily been Baptist, Lutheran, or Catholics. If it makes you happy and lowers your blood pressure, just put one of their names in there instead, OK? CF: So you hold me -- somebody Mormons regard as an open "apostate" -- tho I was never Lds...to a higher standard than your own founding "prophet?" (Really???)

If you were never a member,t hen you can't be an apostate (Ya gotta read the fine print there)

I am not holding you to any standard but the one you were proposing in your post.

DU: I do not see Jesus as a Celestial Santa Claus, who gives his believers salvation, just because they believed, but because they believed enough to do something about it.

CF: Well, then have a fit with Romans 6:23 (not me): For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Nope, no fit, the resurrection is a free gift, Atonement is something you have to keep the commandments for, it's all clear to me, because it's all been explained by the church and confirmed by the Holy Ghost.

CF: Have a fit with Paul & Silas (not me): He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I DO to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household." (Acts 16:30-31)

Yep, that's the start, Faith in the lord Jesus Christ, first principle of the Gospel, so?

I could go tit for tat with you on scriptures that say we need faith, Yawn, but that's been done to death.

I'll just skip to the end, if you don't mind:
James 2:14-26

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Mormons believe you need Faith and Works. There are places in the Bible that concentrate on faith, places that concentrate on Works, but there are also places that say you need both. Play the Get out of Hell free card all you want, as for me, I'll just do what Jesus commands.

Let me know how that works out for ya, OK?

CF: (If we were to have a careful Bible study together, I could point out all the verses that show that we're not expected to carry out those commandments according to our own wisdom, our own skill, our own energy, our own anything -- That's what the Holy Ghost living in us as a temple is all about -- something that gets short-shrift among Mormons because their "temple focus" is almost all 100% building and 100% ritual)

Um... That's 200%... (Math challenged as well Grin)

You know, I'd actually enjoy a good bible study with you, but it wouldn't be all one sided. As for going with the spirit, LOL! we do that all the time!

CF: Bottom line. When we obey, we don't get the credit or glory. I thought Jesus has already made that crystal clear

I couldn't agree more, we don't deserve any of the things God is prepared to give us, and we will never "deserve" it either.

CF: DU...you and I are mere servants. Unglorified ones at that.

100% agreement on that!

CF: Until He lifts us from this earth and GIVES the 100% gift of glory.

IT is a gift, but one we have to keep commandments to get because That's what Jesus said to do.

CF: Anything we did in this lifetime, as long as wasn't done to audition for godhood & self-glory or done to parade before men, was merely what unworthy servants do.

I cannot agree more (I already agreed 100% and I can do math :-)

CF: Mormons are trained to focus exclusively on worthiness. Jesus wants repentant, self-acknowledge 'unworthy servants.'"

Then I am a really badly trained Mormon, because I keep thinking about repentance, commandments I need to keep, etc. and only some of those are in the temple. CF: Won't you join me, a poor, sinful, unworthy servant?

If you are asking me to join you in sinning, I'll have to decline, I am too good at that already :-), but worshiping Jesus and admitting my unworthy status, I'm way ahead of you, wait, was that pride? Dang! And now I just swore!...

My Dad once said if you don't laugh at yourself, everyone else will. I miss him.

(FYI, He's worse than dead, altzimers) I gotta go my 18mo just stopped playing with the other kids and started pulling at my knee... Daddy time!