Utah Sen. Bennett makes a leap, defends his LDS faith in new book

The Salt Lake Tribune ^ | Sept. 17, 2009 | Kristen Moulton

[Colofornian]

Bob Bennett has a challenge for those who reject The Book of Mormon as a fanciful work of fiction...In a new book, Leap of Faith: Confronting the Origins of The Book of Mormon, the lifelong Mormon and grandson of a church prophet, argues that the foundational book of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints cannot be dismissed so easily.

SNIP

...Terryl Givens, a Mormon and a professor of literature and religion at the University of Richmond, notes that The Book of Mormon has not undergone much if any scrutiny by scholars outside the faith.

"The story of its coming forth is too fantastical for non-Mormons to overcome," he told Religion News Service.

SNIP

If the book is less likely to find its way into non-Mormon hands, it may turn out to be useful for the faithful, particularly those confused by The Book of Mormon...

Too few Mormons really understand their bedrock book, Bennett says, and many use it merely as a "theological version of Bartlett's," a source of quotes for church talks.

SNIP

Some church members have told Bennett they are uncomfortable to learn there are unresolved "problems" with The Book of Mormon.

For instance, he doesn't have an answer for why Moroni, the last author of the book and the angel who purportedly showed the plates to Smith, would use words about charity that are almost identical to those uttered by Paul in his letter to the Corinthians in the New Testament...

"They [his own critics] say, 'One of our own should not be pointing these things out in case the critics have missed them,' " Bennett says.

But Bennett says, to remain credible, he had to put even the unanswerable arguments into his book.

[Colofornian]

From the article: "The story of its coming forth is too fantastical for non-Mormons to overcome," (quote from Lds prof @ the University of Richmond)

IOW -- why bother, Lds missionary, trying to peddle this book door to door?

From the article: Too few Mormons really understand their bedrock book, Bennett says, and many use it merely as a "theological version of Bartlett's," a source of quotes for church talks.

This is an interesting observation from the grandson of an Lds "prophet." But Bennett doesn't explain why this is so...The answer includes the reality that most bedrock Lds distinctive teachings don't come from the Book of Mormon!

Here, their other key book, Doctrine & Covenants says in several places that the Book of Mormon is the "fulness of the everlasting gospel" -- and yet it doesn't teach most of the key Lds "gospel principles."

Baptism for the dead isn't mentioned in the Book of Mormon.
Men becoming gods isn't there.
Nor is god having once been a man who worked his own salvation to eventually become a god.
Nor is there anything about 3 degrees of glory.
Or that you have to be married to earn the highest degree of glory.
Etc, etc., etc.

The other problem with Mormons leading off with the Book of Mormon, then, to non-Mormons -- is that it doesn't reveal what bedrock Mormonism is about. It's actually misleading that an Lds missionary could hand a Book of Mormon to a potential convert, and the convert read it, and actually come to understand what Mormonism is about!

From the article: Bennett "...doesn't have an answer for why Moroni, the last author of the book and the angel who purportedly showed the plates to Smith, would use words about charity that are almost identical to those uttered by Paul in his letter to the Corinthians in the New Testament...

Hmm...supposed "forgery" expert doesn't have an answer for this -- or why Joseph Smith copies two dozen chapters from the King James Bible word for word into the Book of Mormon? (What? Did these gold plates from 600 B.C., etc., only translate into 1611 King James English vocabulary?)

And what about hundreds of phrases and words also lifted word-for-word from the King James Bible?

[svcw]

It's actually misleading that an Lds missionary could hand a Book of Mormon to a potential convert, and the convert read it, and actually come to understand what Mormonism is about!

Well certainly is the truth.

[Godzilla]

From the article: Bennett "...doesn't have an answer for why Moroni, the last author of the book and the angel who purportedly showed the plates to Smith, would use words about charity that are almost identical to those uttered by Paul in his letter to the Corinthians in the New Testament...

This is what happens when one accepts the bom as true at all costs, regardless of the volumes of evidence that it is the work of man, not God.

[ZGuy]

One of the more memorable passages from the Book of Mormon:

ETHER 15:30. And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz.

ETHER 15:31. And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised upon his hands and fell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.

[Safrguns]

I have a question... and I need help.

What does the bible say about what a father must do if a son (almost of legal age) becomes completely deceived by Mormonism... even to the point of expressing a level of faith that cannot be changed by reason and examination?

[Ozone34]

The origin of the Book of Mormon is explained here:

Who Really Wrote the Book of Mormon?: The Spalding Enigma

In a nutshell, the origin of the Book of Mormon is not much different from that of the Koran or Dianetics. It's basically part of a business plan!

[ghost of nixon]

First - you should pray for your son. Second, you need to read up on Mormonism and understand what the differences are between LDS and Christianity. Once you have found some excellent resource material exposing the LDS faith for what it is, challenge your son to read it. Start with Utah Lighthouse Misitries to find good resource material.

[Colofornian]

This is what happens when one accepts the bom as true at all costs, regardless of the volumes of evidence that it is the work of man, not God.

And the irony of your statement is that parts of the Book of Mormon is God's word -- but only because of Joseph Smith's outright plagiarism. 1 Nephi 22:20 in the Book of Mormon is a prime-time example.

1 Nephi 22:20: "A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you"

Context: Who is supposedly being paraphrased in this verse? (Answer - Moses -- See Deut 18:15,18)

Was Deut 18 written before this supposed Nephi verse? (Yes, Nephi was supposedly written about 600 years pre-Christ)

So what's the problem? Well compare 1 Nephi 22:20 to Acts 3:22 -- as Acts was written 600 years later -- and Peter was also paraphrasing Moses:

Acts 3:22: "A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you...like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you"

I mean Mormons can't even try to explain that away by saying that Peter somehow got ahold of these gold plates! (Why? Because Peter's words in Acts 3:22 weren't written in 1611 King James English!!! They were written by Luke in Greek!)

IOW, to chronologically believe Smith & the Mormons we'd have to believe that...
...Moses said what he did in Deut 18:15,18;
...Nephi paraphrased it in "reformed Egyptian" -- the "choice" language of Jews -- 1 Nephi 22:20;
...then Peter's paraphrase of Moses somehow matches the later Book of Mormon translation in 27 exact English words -- even though Peter's translation was first into Greek (book of Acts) and then 1500 years later was translated again into English!

This is tantamount, Godzilla, to one of your FR posts being published in the year 3800 in a publication -- where they use an exact version of that quotation as it appeared in a British cockney or Scottish colloquial vocab-adapted publication as published in the year 3575...and I don't think future FReepers would tell us with a straight face that the author of the year 3800 publication "translated" the original Godzilla source from gold-plated Freeper documents written in the year 2010...with his face stuck in a hat.

If this is true of generational paraphrases undergoing a second extented generation of same-language colloquialistic vocab & phrase import, how much wider would these phrases be were the paraphrases to have all been written in entirely three major distinct languages (Greek, English, and a language that Smith made up -- Reformed Egyptian)??

There's faith. And then there's fantastic fictional family-handed-down blind faith.

[Colofornian]

And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised upon his hands and fell...

(Well, maybe Shiz' hands were like those of the average American boy on a date -- simply uncontrollable???)

[ejonesie22]

LOL

Boy the Shiz guy was tough...

[greyfoxx39]

Too few Mormons really understand their bedrock book, Bennett says, and many use it merely as a "theological version of Bartlett's," a source of quotes for church talks. ....and FR threads...

I testify that this is twoooo....we see it all the time on FR.

[greyfoxx39]

Ping

[Safrguns]

>>> First - you should pray for your son. Second, you need to read up on Mormonism and understand what the differences are between LDS and Christianity.

Thank you, and we are way ahead of that.
This has been going on for almost a year now.
I am not sure how I could be any more informed on LDS vs Christian beliefs. It is a spiritual hold that trumps reason and logic.

I am not willing at this point to give up on him yet...
but I need to know what God says that I should do in this situation assuming that he will not listen to us as his parents. I’m searching myself for the answer... but any help would be appreciated.

[wintertime]

Bob Bennett has a challenge for those who reject The Book of Mormon as a fanciful work of fiction.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

How can a man have time to write a book and still be a **responsible** SENATOR of the United States of America???? Being a senator should be more than a full-time job, if he were doing it it properly.

[Rockingham]

. . . and a way to collect extra wives.

[humblegunner]

Shiz raised upon his hands and fell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.

Fo' shizzle?

[greyfoxx39]

Thank you, and we are way ahead of that.

Is there by any chance, a friend or love interest who may be influencing him?

[Safrguns]

>>> Is there by any chance, a friend or love interest who may be influencing him?

He claims that he was convinced of BOM being true before he met his mormon girlfriend. But he is surely blinded by her influence, even though he denies it.

His girlfriend’s father is the local LDS bishop... which doesn’t help things much. He obviously has more influence over him than I do. He asks them (girlfriends parents) questions, but will not consult us.

[Bonneville]

If you’re not already aware of it,
http://www.exmormon.org
is a valuable and supportive site. Besides the open forums, it has a wealth of first person stories and exposes actual Mormon theology and history. God bless with all that you’re going through.

[greyfoxx39]

His girlfriend’s father is the local LDS bishop... which doesn’t help things much. He obviously has more influence over him than I do. He asks them (girlfriends parents) questions, but will not consult us.

If your son has hopes of a future with this girl, he will HAVE to convert to mormonism or be dropped like a hot potato.

If he DOES convert, prepare for you, your wife, his siblings, aunts, uncles and grandparents to be excluded from attending his wedding in the LDS temple unless they are "worthy" mormons. You will all be forced to wait either outside or in a "Non-holy" room so that you can all post for wedding pictures on the steps of the temple.

I will pray for you and your family.