Jesus never said John would stick around. Peter pointed at John and asked the resurrected Jesus “What about him?”
Jesus answered “What about him? What if he lives forever? Mind your own business.”
John died an old man, the only one of the apostles to die of natural causes.
The three Nephite story assumes that the Book of Mormon is true. Good luck proving that.
Exactly. This writer is a traditional Mormon (one who misquotes his "scriptures"): From the article: One who claims a literal belief in the Book of Mormon must agree that the three are still hanging around somewhere. The same goes for the Bible and John the Beloved.
From the article: We Mormons have our own personal religious lore...
(Yeah, we know: The whole Doctrine & Covenants falls into that category!)
Doesn't this Mormon know that Mormons get their real basis of John the apostle still wandering the earth direct from Joseph Smith (not the Bible) in Doctrine & Covenants 7:1-3?
"And the Lord said unto me: John, my beloved, what desirest thou? For if you shall ask what you will, it shall be granted unto you. And I said unto him: Lord, give unto me power over death, that I may live and bring souls unto thee. And the Lord sait unto me: Verily, verily, I say unto thee, because thou desirest this thou shalt tarry until I come in my glory and shall prophesy before nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.
So, Smith thought John was still trepsing around Planet Earth.
Seems to me some Q are in order:
How many Mormons in how many countries have been converted by the apostle John?
Why haven't we seen articles about these conversions in Ensign magazine? In the Mormon Times? In church curricula?
Why doesn't the Lds church use the apostle John as an Lds missionary trainer? How many Lds missionaries have been trained by the apostle John?
Perhaps some of you can add to these questions to ask your Mormon neighbors: _________________________ (fill in the blank)
You have to understand the picture here:
#1 Joe's pet rock gets active: Joseph gets a "translation" of a "revelation" through the urim and thummim" (Joseph’s pet rock).
#2 So he writes it down. Less than 150 words (what is now parts of D&C 7:1, 2, 3, all of 4, most of v. 5, all of v. 8).
#3 It’s printed in the Mormon “Book of Commandments.”
#4 (You’d think that I’d be done telling this story & that Joseph “the seer” just went on to “seeing” other things to “see.” Nope)
#5 Joseph gets this idea, ya see. He wants to start another book. (What became Doctrine & Covenants).
#6 So Joe the editor gets busy. He takes out “Lectures of Faith” from the “Book of Commandments.” But he keeps those early “revelations” as the jumpstart for the Doctrine & Covenants – and D&C 7 is one of these.
#7 'Silly putty Joe: Well, AFTER the Lord already gave him this 140-something word “revelation” AND he publishes it, he decides to play with it, like it’s silly putty. By the time he’s done with it, it’s suddenly expanded to 252 words!
#8 Joe decides to edit the Mormon god's revelation: And it’s not just he added another 100+ words to the end. Because D&C 7:8 (the last verse of D&C 7) stayed exactly the same – and nothing followed it. If you look at D&C 7:6-7, they weren’t in the original revelation! He changes words – like in v. 5 “desired” becomes ”undertaken”.
#9 Note this “most convenient” "keys" of authority handed over to Joe in a verse he tacked on in the D&C version of this revelation– v. 6: “And I will make thee to minister for him and for thy brother James; and unto you three I will give this power and the keys of this ministry until I come.” (the three included Smith & Oliver Cowdery)
#10 Since this thread is about “religious lore” about John as recorded by Smith, here’s what he changed/added AFTER this so-called “revelation” had already been published: Part of v. 1 (Not in original “revelation”): “For if you shall ask what you will, it shall be granted unto you.”
Part of v. 2: added words include “unto him…over death…live and”
Part of v. 3: (Not in original “revelation”): “…and shall prophesy before nations, kinds, tongues and people”)
Questions for your Mormon neighbor:
Who “screwed up” in translating D&C 7 as a Book of Commandments “revelation” the first time?
Did the urim & thummim have a “tech” issue?
Were the tech people in India hard for Joseph to understand? By wire?
Did Joe just screw it up?
Did Joe just decide he was going to suppress part of the revelation when it was first published? Why the editing of specific words – especially in vv. 2, 5? – Much as a writer would do a re-write? Does the Mormon god need rewrites hear on Planet Earth as he gives “revelations?”
And if these three verses as recorded in the Book of Commandments couldn’t stand on their own – if Joe had to re-do them, add to them in between verses, etc. – then what does that say about the trustworthiness of Smith as a “translator” of revelations? If he couldn’t get just three Book of Commandment verses right, then can Mormons really trust 600 pages in the Book of Mormon???