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To: MissesBush
Couldn’t many of the same things be said about Noah’s Ark?

Yes, but that only means that both stories are not literal but allegorical. If you look at them you will see that they can't be real. We today - the whole civilization, if you wish - probably can't build a boat that would house every animal, plant and insect species for a year. We likely can't gather them all either, and we can't guarantee that they won't die during the trip - even though today we know a lot about animals of Earth. Noah would not know what most of the animals eat (we still don't know that about some species,) and it would be tough for him to travel (how?) to Americas, Europe and Australia and Antarctica to catch all that wildlife. If the God was seriously helping Noah with all that work then why to bother with Noah - his merely human efforts would be invisible on that scale.

Our reply is that the Lord can accomplish any miracle he needs.

It's a deus ex machina answer. It is certainly possible that a deity is capable of miracles, but in this case they are inefficiently placed. For example, instead of flooding the Earth with water (which the deity has to borrow somewhere and then return) it would be far more practical to spread a virus that kills only humans, and give the vaccine to a few chosen. You don't even need divine powers to do that.

6 posted on 09/13/2009 4:29:05 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: Greysard; MissesBush; greyfoxx39
We today - the whole civilization, if you wish - probably can't build a boat that would house every animal, plant and insect species for a year.

I don't see anything in the Genesis text about Noah's instructions including "plants and insects." (I guess Noah needed you as His secretary and "Ark administrator" to ensure some missing instructions weren't missed) [But nice of you to imply that there's no way termites, for example, could "never" survive months on a floating log]

As for the animals, you assume, of course, the same number of species existed now as then. Can we hear your authority that tells us exactly how many species were on earth then? (And what is the basis for that conclusion?) Since naturalists already assume species grew in number at points in time, I'm not sure why they have a fit about others who might believe that species expanded in number after a point in time.

We likely can't gather them all either, and we can't guarantee that they won't die during the trip - even though today we know a lot about animals of Earth.

(So now you're telling us that just because Noah couldn't pull together an animal life insurance policy with the life insurance industry of his era that, "Nope. No way could a divine being guarantee 100% of their lives for months on end." [Wow, what a super tough assignment for a God working thru man -- pick young animals & keep them alive for months!]

Yes, but that only means that both stories are not literal but allegorical. If you look at them you will see that they can't be real....We likely can't gather them all either, and it would be tough for him to travel (how?) to Americas, Europe and Australia and Antarctica to catch all that wildlife.

Well, this only shows at the very least that you haven't read the original text...Here, I'll help you by highlighting the key words + reminding you that Hollywood, although not usually getting the text right, actually did get it right in one spot in the movie Evan Almighty:

Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. (Gen. 6:20)

(Otherwise, you're telling us that animals can honor a God-produced intuition that keeps them alive during a harsh winter or sprawling spring flood -- but God couldn't engineer a similar intuition elsewhere?)

If the God was seriously helping Noah with all that work then why to bother with Noah - his merely human efforts would be invisible on that scale.

You know what? For centuries, man has had absolutely zilcho ability to make many kinds of fruits & veggies from scratch (no seed factories, etc.) We could apply your same claim to that process: If God was seriously helping farmers with all that work involving food growth industry then why bother with farmers -- their merely human efforts would be invisible on that scale?

Noah would not know what most of the animals eat...

You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them. (Gen. 6:21)

Well, just as God gives "assignments" if you will to farmers & fruit growers to carry out without expecting every aspect of this process to be His alone, I think looking @ the common pet food store that man has somehow figured out what a lot of pets like to eat, don't you?

7 posted on 09/13/2009 5:12:01 PM PDT by Colofornian
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