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To: MarkBsnr
Note the term ‘begotten’. I have begotten you. I have fathered you. That is what that means. I went online to find a KJV at http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+4&version=NKJV and found: 14 I do not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children I warn you. 15 For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Therefore I urge you, imitate me. 17 For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord, who will remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach everywhere in every church. Note: children, begotten, son in the Lord. Your point is noted and refuted.

What exactly did you refute? Paul did not literally father alllll these children or beget them? And Paul says "for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you THROUGH the gospel." Paul is call an apostle of Jesus Christ, not 'Father' Paul. ICorinthians 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing in there about "Father" Paul.

4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; (No Father Paul here)

5 That in *every thing* ye are enriched by HIM, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;

6 Even as the *testimony* of Christ was confirmed in you:

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the *coming* of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the *day* of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 God is faithful, by Whom ye were called unto the fellowship of His Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Paul tells these people in Corinth 3:1 And I, brethern, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. (These people were still in spiritual diapers.)

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Paul continues to fill up the baby bottle to feed these babies in Christ and then 4:14 I write not these things to SHAME you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. And he is not particularly pleased he is still having to change diapers instead of serving these people the MEAT of the WORD.

And you want to tell me Paul's warning is that he is altering the WORDS of Christ?

IF all you get from Matthew 23 is Humility and arrogance, JMT. That is what this passage is about. It is not about forbidding the use of the term father or teacher. Paul uses it regularly as a bishop in the Church to describe himself in relation to his flock. I truly feel sad for you.

These words of Christ are the MEAT that Paul could not get to because he was having to fill up baby bottles and change spiritual diapers to the babes in Christ.

63 posted on 09/13/2009 2:02:18 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts

***What exactly did you refute? Paul did not literally father alllll these children or beget them? ***

The fact that you said that father in a spiritual sense was forbidden and I have showed you that Paul uses this to show his position as spiritual leader of the Christians at Corinth and the spiritual father of Timothy. You make my point for me and I thank you for the admission.

***IF all you get from Matthew 23 is Humility and arrogance, JMT. That is what this passage is about. It is not about forbidding the use of the term father or teacher. Paul uses it regularly as a bishop in the Church to describe himself in relation to his flock. I truly feel sad for you.***

That is the intent of this passage. No need to feel sad. Many have attempted personal interpretation in isolation from the Church and all have failed.


66 posted on 09/13/2009 12:03:21 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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