You're on! Just I won't use the descriptive term I used for Corona that the mod found so objectionable...;)
And the controversial dogmata are viewed as promises made to all the faithful but fulfilled in her. She IS sinless (we say); the faithful all will be sinless. She “now” lives in the heavenly courts; all the faithful will live in the heavenly courts.
On that I would agree, but I would go further! The state in which Mary may reside now is no different a state than ANY of us will have when we reach Heaven. Sinless, and living in the Heavenly courts.
Mary is to be revered because of her devotion to God; however, anyone who shows devotion to God is deserving of the same reverence, since we will have the same rewards in Heaven, and are called - by Jesus - His brothers and sisters. Family.
I think Protestants make too big a deal of the “Queen of heaven and earth and of all the saints and angels” thing. Part of this is that since the 16th century we’ve all gotten so legalistic. So when we hear “queen” we think of a kind of political authority.
Actually, this Protestant (raised Catholic - 12 years of Catholic school, never baptized or confirmed a Catholic, though) doesn't have a problem with the label "Queen" as much as I have a problem asking Mary - or any of the Saints - to intercede on my behalf.
Jesus knows all. He sees all. He knows our current state, and He is the sole judge of the quick and the dead. I do not think having another petition Christ on my behalf will change His opinion or judgment of me!
On the contrary, I believe it to be an affront to Jesus; if I am not worthy of what I ask, how is going and asking his mother or another Saint "put in a good word for me" going to change things? It won't, because Jesus knows all!
The beauty of Christianity - of God's gift of Jesus - is that we can talk straight to Him! We do not need a Priest or Rabbi or Imam or Lama or Monk or any holy man to take our prayers and petitions to Christ; He will take them directly.
Using an intermediary - to me - smacks of either bribery/cajoling (using Mary to bring our petitions, in the vain hope that "Jesus won't listen to me, but He'll listen to her!") or deception ("If I ask a Saint to ask this of Jesus, maybe He won't know it really came from me, so He'll say yes").
Additionally, praying for intercession by others leads new and weak Christians astray, as a large percentage still believe you pray TO the person directly, not THROUGH the person. Idolatry is a very serious issue with that setup.
So, for this Protestant, using an intercessionary figure like Mary or a Saint is actually a bad thing; it denies the gift of God - our direct "hotline to The Man" so to speak - and it can lead new Christians into heretical beliefs.
Note that I do NOT denigrate the need to learn, read, and meditate on the lives of Mary and the Saints! Rather, we should use them - and all the great figures of the Bible - as examples of how to live Godly lives, and how to correct ourselves when we go astray. There is much to be gained in personal growth from their examples.
But I do not believe they will "help" in any way in relations to our judgment by Jesus; in fact, I believe if the Saints and Mary are truly given to God, they would reject our pleads for intercession, as the way is already laid bare; it is for us to go straight to Him, not through another.
"Come unto Me, all who are weary, and I will give you rest". We go to Him, not to a person who was great and ask them to pass some rest on over here.
Oh yeah, one more thing: I think what interferes with the conversation is the tendency to isolate and separate gestation and parturition as biological functions happening not in and to Mary but only in and to her body. I think this suggests an unbiblical idea of what a human is.
What made Mary special to Jesus wasn't her biological connection; ANY woman could have biologically born Him! What made her special was her SPIRITUAL devotion to Him. And that is what we can each have, and are called to have. And Jesus recognized that anyone who has such a devotion is indeed His family, as much as Mary or any other blood relatives.
After 0bama’s latest and Joe Wilson’s humane loss of cool, my enthusiasm for this is on the wane — especially since we’ve gone from some good questions to how wrong it is of us to favor crucifixes. Oh Lord!
I thought I’d actually answered this last night, but I was falling asleep at my key board, so maybe not.
Anyway, for me my enthusiasm for the whole “intercession of the saints” thing arises more from experience than doctrine.
My MIL is a strong woman of prayer. It’s amazing. If my perception is accurate it can only be a matter of vocation. Anyway, if something is on your heart, by all means take it to the Lord. But it’s also good to ask Carolyn to pray ...
Similarly, my subjective impression of my Marian devotional attitude and practices is that they goose up my intimacy with IHS. No I do not understand this. I DO enjoy it, along with what I subjectively take to be the assistance of Dominic, Gabriel (my patrons) Anthony, Dymphna and a crowd of others, all of whom I experience as helpful, “consoling” (in the technical sense), and encouraging.
Utterly irritating anecdote. A chunk of us are returning from the Dominican House of Studies in DC - 4 car caravan, and we’ve agreed to stop at an IHOP on the way. Suddenly it’s raining. I’m in our pastor’s car with him and two ladies. We let them off at the door and go to look in the PACKED parking lot for a parking space.
Fr. Brian, who has a lively devotion to Therese of Lisieux says, “Little Flower, show your power.”
INSTANTLY, three cars pull out of their spaces. Seconds later I bruise my lower mandible on my knees.
(I hope I don’t have to go into a lengthy apology about the “power” of the Little Flower being powerful intercession ...)
As to the problem of “the weak” falling into a kind of polytheism, I think it’s real, though possibly overstated.
If I get over my current dazedness about the Dear Leader’s weirdness (And McCain’s incredibly foolish response) I may be able to come up with a something reasonable to say about it.