Decisions decisions!
Posted on 09/06/2009 7:19:16 AM PDT by Colofornian
If I do; it'll be in PUBLIC.
Some assume that Adam was given one wife, therefore we all should only have one wife.Polygamy is Icky.
While this seems simple, it's just not valid, consider Adam's children with this logic: All of Adam's children married siblings, so this is how it was meant to be...
One makes sense, one does not according to our culture, the Adam only had one wife while true is a projection of our cultures values onto him If we say that is the only valid form of marriage, the Sibling marriage would be an equally valid projection from a culture that practices sibling marriage, and a projection from a polygamous culture would say that God married Adam to all the available women.
Projecting your values is not a valid form of determining what the scriptures say, or what God means by them.
Throughout the Old testament there are people living in polygamous marriages, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses. We only find out about their polygamy when it impacts "the story", never to reprimand them, thus it's valid to assume since these "men of God" were never reprimanded by God or it would be in the record, thus we can conclude that polygamy was not an issue for God, and God does not change...
Some claim that Jesus forbid polygamy, here let me give the Scriptures they use:27 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:I included the whole paragraph because since the Bible was originally written in paragraph form sometimes context is lost by just quoting a single scripture. Jesus comes out against Lusting and lasciviousness, he talks of removal of temptations, he then talks about Divorce, and how a divorced woman who remarries commits adultery.
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
This is a condemnation of the Serial polygamy (Multiple divorce and remarriage) that is commonly practiced today, but not a condemnation of the biblical polygamy where the marriage bonds stay intact, children keep their fathers, and the family unit instead of being destroyed is just expanded.
I have challenged theologians online many times and none can show me a scripture that forbids a man to have two, or more wives.
This Objection to polygamy is basically one of Culture, eating some food is a delicacy in one culture, is "Icky" in another (Snails for example). Such "programmed" responses are sometimes impossible to overcome. There are instances recorded in history where people who refused to be rude and excuse themselves to go to the bathroom have actually ruptured their bladder and died from it. The idea that polygamy might actually be acceptable to God engenders similar unreasoning and unreasonable reaction from some people, if you are one of those people; don't read any further, it will just raise your blood pressure.Polygamy is or was Illegal
Polygamy was legal in most ancient cultures (Greek being an exception), Polygamy was made illegal at the Federal level of the United states by the Edmunds–Tucker Act in 1887, until then there was no federal level law, and only the laws of states must be considered. The Edmunds–Tucker Act was tied up for many years in the courts as the church tried to have it ruled unconstitutional. Illinois where the prophet Joseph lived granted Nauvoo a city charter that allowed it's governing body to decide if states laws applied there therefore Illinois Law cannot be used to determine if Polygamy was illegal in Nauvoo. Nauvoo had no laws against polygamy.Isn't Polygamy Adultery?
The American frontier has always had polygamy as part of it's history; The Indians had many Squaws (or wives) Mountain men often had Wives and Indian squaws it was not uncommon for white men to live with more than one wife. In modern literature and movies, Mormons are depicted as being the only ones with multiple wives, and that is accurate, we did, as frontier people live that aspect of God's law, but we were not the only ones.
Which brings us to the Law, which Law?
God has laws, and men have a laws. Polygamy is the lawful practice of having more than one wife, but according to who's law. If it's the law of the United states, Does the law make something moral?
Abortion is legal, but it's condemned in the Bible, so I think it's immoral. Polygamy is illegal, but it's approved of in the Bible, therefore I think it's moral. There are many in the US of A who believe that making something legal makes it moral, conservatives are not supposed to believe that. Conversely Conservatives should not believe that making something illegal makes it immoral.
When Joseph Smith and the Mormons were practicing it it was legal federally, locally, and Biblically.. Nauvoo had a charter that allowed the city to decide if such laws would apply to the city and when the Mormons first arrived in the Utah territory, the Edmunds–Tucker Act had not been passed yet, The passage of this law and it's support in the supreme court signaled the end of the church's practice of Polygamy in that the 12th Article of faith requires the church to keep all the laws of the land and so the First official Declaration of the church was issued by the prophet, which contains the following:Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.Thus, the church is not now or will it be, while it is against the law of the land, promoting active practice of polygamy.
There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.
Polygamy is not Adultery. Polygamy, or in this case more accurately polygyny, is the practice of multiple wives in a marriage, Adultery is sex out side of marriage. Therefore sex in a polygamous marriage is not adultery.Joseph Smith and Polygamy
Some anti's will inevitably point out that the marriage has to be "legal", (see Polygamy is (or was) Illegal).
If a marriage (between the persons in question) is in force, Sex between those within that marriage covenant cannot legitimately be called adultery.
This topic has a lot of Sub questions:Doesn't the Book of Mormon Forbid polygamy?
Q: Didn't Joseph just create polygamy because he was a sex fiend?
A: If you start from "he was a bad man" you will inevitably end up with yes; If you start with he was a prophet of God you will inevitably end up with no; if you start with an open mind you have to find out if he was a prophet, see Putting our religion to "the test".
Q: Didn't Joseph marry other men's wives?
A: The short answer is yes, the long answer is no. Clear? I didn't think so this is why anti Mormons love to bring this up. Communication then was not as good or immediate as it is now, often a woman's husband would be gone for years and she would have assumed he was dead, Joseph or one of the other men in the church would marry these women so they could take care of them (women being unable to own property, enemies of the church would try to seize their land). There were also women who wanted to be sealed for all time and eternity to a worthy male, but their husband was not worthy, they could not, some of these women were also "married" to worthy men in the church, however, these women continued to live with their current husbands for the rest of their lives because the marriage was only for eternity, not for mortality. this makes for a very confusing mess, and for competing claims with some of these women believing that since they were married to Joseph, any child they bore was his (biology was apparently not a frontier strong suit), thus we are left with these competing claims. There is no proof that Joseph fathered a single child from these women. Allegations that he did abound among the anti Mormons, and among some who want to be descended from him. However, Genetic studies performed on all who claim to be his descendants have proven to be negatives for all his wives but Emma.
Q: Did Joseph Smith marry any fourteen year old girls?
A: True, a fourteen year old woman was considered a marriageable age, boys were considered men at the age of twelve and often left home to seek their fortunes by 14. Joseph also married a 57 year old widow.
Q: Didn't Joseph (or the church) teach that you had to practice polygamy in order to be saved?
A: No, less than 1% of the church ever practiced polygamy, the church does teach that marriage is required in order to obtain the Highest degree of glory in heaven, and the principle of polygamy has to be accepted, not the practice. (the principle being that it's valid as it was in the bible).
Q: Didn't Joseph marry women against their will?
A: No, there were women like Helen Mar Kimball who were pressured to marry Joseph by their family, but arranged marriages were also common then and the fact of arrangement by someone else means pressure from outside the individual.
If there is a question which should be added here, Please FM me.
Actually this is a very good point, Mormons believe in a Book called the Book of Mormon which has the strongest passage speaking out against polygamy than any other passage of scripture I know of. The Passage is in:Polygamy is Immoral
Jacob 2:23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.WOW Pretty strong stuff huh? If that was in the Bible, un-refuted by the Bible elsewhere, well I wouldn't be writing this section I would not be defending polygamy as biblical, but it's not int he Bible which is in this case important.
24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
33 For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts.
34 And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our father, Lehi; wherefore, ye have known them before; and ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done.
35 Behold, ye have done greater iniquities than the Lamanites, our brethren. Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives, and lost the confidence of your children, because of your bad examples before them; and the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God against you. And because of the strictness of the word of God, which cometh down against you, many hearts died, pierced with deep wounds.
Why does it matter where it's from? Well, if the Book of Mormon is scripture, then Joseph Smith is a prophet, if Joseph Smith is not a prophet then who cares what he wrote?
This is circular logic by Anti Mormons, "Since Joseph Smith speaks for God he violated God's word which he wrote when he said God said something else later, thus he is not a Prophet of God. (The logic goes like this: God does not change, so what he is saying should not change either." Unfortunately for them the Bible makes clear that while God does not change, God does change what he is saying based on the People he is talking to, Nineveh anyone? Jesus fulfilling the law of Moses? (an eternal covenant) I could go on, but the point is this principle is already demonstrated in the Bible.
You should also ask what is this whoredom Being condemned in Jacob? What is a Whoredom?
Simply put it is lewd and lustful behavior, Polygamy as practiced by Abraham and Jacob and Moses is never described as being lewd. David and Solomon however had lots of "stuff" going on that would fit into the red light districts of some towns. Polygamy is not to be practiced like a whore house.
There is a principle which is if God has to command us not to do something, he will do so in excess so there is no excuse. like the law of Moses was stricter than was needed before Moses, and since Christ. Here are a few examples of this from Mormon Scriptures as well: D&C 58:2626 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.D&C 89:1-31 A Word OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—The Word of Wisdom (section 89 of the D&C) was originally given as a suggestion, not a command, when the "saints" widely ignored it, it became a commandment (as it is for members of the church today).
2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
3 Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.
So if you don't listen to suggestions, God will command and be stricter than the suggestion so everyone will know where the "line" is so people can't say they didn't know.
In the book of Jacob, the men were marrying, having a fling and divorcing the women later. many were doing this to punish their earlier wives and others with lewd intent. This lewd and lascivious behavior is against God's will and so he forbid them to practice polygamy completely.
Joseph told the church this was not the Lord's will for our day. and if he was a prophet, he was speaking for God, if not, he was speaking for himself. What people need to do is find out if Joseph was a prophet or not in order to know if Jacob 2 matters or not.
Morality today for most Americans is determined by the Bible. The Bible has no prohibition on polygamy, indeed, the many important prophets had multiple wives. (Abraham, Moses, Isaac, Jacob) and in at least one instance God says he (God) gave multiple wives as a blessing (to David).Polygamy leads to other sins
The bible does have specific disapproval of Divorce and remarriage, or serial polygamy which is widely practiced in America today.
This is nothing more than religious guilt by association. The logic is simple: I knew a man who read the bible and he beat his wife... (conclusion reading the Bible makes you beat your wife...)Only a Mormon would promote polygamy
you may laugh but I had this exact, well it was in Chinese, but translated story from a Buddhist man we tried to teach in Taiwan.
Does polygamy practiced they way it was in the bible eliminate all sin? No, but neither does marriage, does a monogamous marriage eliminate all sin? again no. We are all sinners.
To suggest that a behavior which was practiced by many righteous men in the OT and many early Christians as well is unbiblical is just denial of reality.
Really, there are tons of "non Mormon" polygamy sites that are striving to point to reality, here are a few: (2520)The Bible approves of Polygamy. It's a fact one arrived at by any who actuality study it as these great men have.Do I agree with all the reasoning on these sites? No, but it's not just Mormons who are saying Polygamy is Biblical.
- Love that Works FAQ
- TheologyWeb - Is polygamy truly unBiblical?
- Tertullian - Ante Nicene - Admits that polygamy was commanded by god in the OT, says not anymore though.
- FIFTEEN OBJECTIONS TO POLYGAMY ANSWERED
Here is a page by Mormons on the early "Church Fathers" and their views on Polygamy
Some Quotes:
TertullianAs I think, moreover, each pronouncement and arrangement is (the act) of one and the same God; who did then indeed, in the beginning, send forth a sowing of the race by an indulgent laxity granted to the reins of connubial alliances, until the world should be replenished, until the material of the new discipline should attain to forwardness: now, however, at the extreme boundaries of the times, has checked (the command) which He had sent out, and recalled the indulgence which He had granted; not without a reasonable ground for the extension (of that indulgence) in the beginning, and the limitation of it in the end. (Tertullian, " Exhortation to Chastity," (6) Ante-Nicene Fathers 6:53–54)Justin Martyr
Tertullian's perspective is strikingly similar to Jacob. 2:30, in which monogamy is normal, but God may command exceptions to "raise up seed."Justin Martyr argued that David's sin was only in the matter of Uriah's wife, and echoed a common early Christian idea that marriage was a "mystery," or sacred rite of the type which Latter-day Saints associate with temple worship:Augustine
And this one fall of David, in the matter of Uriah's wife, proves, sirs, " I said, "that the patriarchs had many wives, not to commit fornication, but that a certain dispensation and all mysteries might be accomplished by them; since, if it were allowable to take any wife, or as many wives as one chooses, and how he chooses, which the men of your nation do over all the earth, wherever they sojourn, or wherever they have been sent, taking women under the name of marriage, much more would David have been permitted to do this. Dialogue With Typho (141) Ante-Nicene Fathers 1:270)
Justin saw the patriarchs' marriages not as corruptions or something which God 'winked at,' but acts with significant ritual and religious power.Even Augustine, a towering figure in Christian theology, held that polygamy was not something that was a crime before God, but rather a matter that depended more upon cultural biases:And one of my favorites from another site: Martin Luther
Again, Jacob the son of Isaac is charged with having committed a great crime because he had four wives. But here there is no ground for a criminal accusation: for a plurality of wives was no crime when it was the custom; and it is a crime now, because it is no longer the custom. There are sins against nature, and sins against custom, and sins against the laws. In which, then, of these senses did Jacob sin in having a plurality of wives? As regards nature, he used the women not for sensual gratification, but for the procreation of children. For custom, this was the common practice at that time in those countries. And for the laws, no prohibition existed. The only reason of its being a crime now to do this, is because custom and the [secular] laws forbid it. (Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: Series 1 (Augustine and Chrysostome) (Vol. 1–14) (New York: Christian Literature Publishing Co., 1886–1889), 4:288)"I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. If a man wishes to marry more than one wife he should be asked whether he is satisfied in his conscience that he may do so in accordance with the word of God. In such a case the civil authority has nothing to do in the matter." (De Wette II, 459, ibid., pp. 329-330.)
1890: Manifesto (a statement denouncing polygamy)
"Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President
To Whom It May Concern:
Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—
I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.
One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.
Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.
There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.
WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:
“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”
The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.
Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.
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Hebrews 11:35-40
35. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection. 36. Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison. 37. They were stoned ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated-- 38. the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. |
(Ain’t boilerplate FUN!)
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THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS SECTION 132
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501–507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.
1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives; 26–27, Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines— 2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter. 3 Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same. 4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye dammed; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory. 5 For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world. 6 And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fullness of my glory; and he that receiveth a fullness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God.
7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead. 8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion. 9 Will I accept of an offering, saith the Lord, that is not made in my name? 10 Or will I receive at your hands that which I have not appointed? 11 And will I appoint unto you, saith the Lord, except it be by law, even as I and my Father ordained unto you, before the world was? 12 I am the Lord thy God; and I give unto you this commandment—that no man shall come unto the Father but by me or by my word, which is my law, saith the Lord. 13 And everything that is in the world, whether it be ordained of men, by thrones, or principalities, or powers, or things of name, whatsoever they may be, that are not by me or by my word, saith the Lord, shall be thrown down, and shall not remain after men are dead, neither in nor after the resurrection, saith the Lord your God. 14 For whatsoever things remain are by me; and whatsoever things are not by me shall be shaken and destroyed. 15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world. 16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory. 17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.
18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God. 19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fullness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them. 21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory. 22 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me. 23 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also. 24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law. 25 Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law. 26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God. 27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be dammed, saith the Lord. 28 I am the Lord thy God, and will give unto thee the law of my Holy Priesthood, as was ordained by me and my Father before the world was. 29 Abraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne. 30 Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them. 31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself. 32 Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved. 33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham. 34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises. 35 Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, commanded it. 36 Abraham was commanded to offer his son Isaac; nevertheless, it was written: Thou shalt not kill. Abraham, however, did not refuse, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness. 37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods. 38 David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me. 39 David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord. 40 I am the Lord thy God, and I gave unto thee, my servant Joseph, an appointment, and restore all things. Ask what ye will, and it shall be given unto you according to my word. 41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed. 42 If she be not in the new and everlasting covenant, and she be with another man, she has committed adultery. 43 And if her husband be with another woman, and he was under a avow, he hath broken his vow and hath committed adultery. 44 And if she hath not committed adultery, but is innocent and hath not broken her vow, and she knoweth it, and I reveal it unto you, my servant Joseph, then shall you have power, by the power of my Holy Priesthood, to take her and give her unto him that hath not committed adultery but hath been faithful; for he shall be made ruler over many. 45 For I have conferred upon you the keys and power of the priesthood, wherein I restore all things, and make known unto you all things in due time. 46 And verily, verily, I say unto you, that whatsoever you seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever you bind on earth, in my name and by my word, saith the Lord, it shall be eternally bound in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you remit on earth shall be remitted eternally in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you retain on earth shall be retained in heaven. 47 And again, verily I say, whomsoever you bless I will bless, and whomsoever you curse I will curse, saith the Lord; for I, the Lord, am thy God. 48 And again, verily I say unto you, my servant Joseph, that whatsoever you give on earth, and to whomsoever you give any one on earth, by my word and according to my law, it shall be visited with blessings and not cursings, and with my power, saith the Lord, and shall be without condemnation on earth and in heaven. 49 For I am the Lord thy God, and will be with thee even unto the bend of the world, and through all eternity; for verily I seal upon you your exaltation, and prepare a throne for you in the kingdom of my Father, with Abraham your father. 50 Behold, I have seen your sacrifices, and will forgive all your sins; I have seen your sacrifices in obedience to that which I have told you. Go, therefore, and I make a way for your escape, as I accepted the offering of Abraham of his son Isaac. 51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to prove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice. 52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God. 53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been faithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him. 54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law. 55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an hundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of eternal lives in the eternal worlds. 56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid forgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to rejoice. 57 And again, I say, let not my servant Joseph put his property out of his hands, lest an enemy come and destroy him; for Satan seeketh to destroy; for I am the Lord thy God, and he is my servant; and behold, and lo, I am with him, as I was with Abraham, thy father, even unto his exaltation and glory. 58 Now, as touching the law of the priesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto. 59 Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was Aaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that sent me, and I have endowed him with the keys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit sin, and I will justify him. 60 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God. 61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else. 62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.
63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfill the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified. 64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law. 65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take Hagar to wife. 66 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.
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This shows the problem when you read the Bible thru the filter of Joseph Smith trying to justify his affairs to Emma. Joe, concerned that Emma would take up other husbands (as she threatened), specifically mentioned Emma in D&C 132. He also then goes thru a litany of OT figures to try to justify his behavior. So, sly Joe mentions Isaac.
But nowhere does the Bible mention Isaac having anybody else than Rebekah. So, DU, you are beholden to "Sly Joe's Old -- and Young -- Wives' tales."
Also, nowhere does the Bible ever say or even imply that Moses had more than one wife at a time. (Surely you're familiar with a widower remarrying)
But you're so assume-happy to make your point. (You argue from silence)
Abraham had sex with a slave girl. So what? (Can slave girls even "consent" to marriage?) Besides, Abram still thought of her as his wife's servant girl after sleeping with her...as hid Hagar...as did the Angel of the Lord...as did Sarah later on...as did Moses...as did the apostle Paul.
As for Jacob, 'twas deception based -- not a prototype you'd like for your own child to follow, eh, DU?
Biblical Prohibitions vs. polygamy: Dt. 17:17; Lev. 18:18 + NT passages about being the husband of one wife -- if you don't, that disqualifies you from church leadership -- utterly ignored, tossed aside & disregarded by 19th century Lds church leaders -- so much for "restorationists."
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THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS SECTION 132
51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
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3 And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.So you would say Sari gave Hagar to Abraham to be his woman? So what, she is his wife, they had no better way to say it.
Adam and Steve getting 'married' does NOT make either one of them into a 'wife'.
One is EITHER a concubine or a wife.
Where do you ever find that one is equal to the other?
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THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS SECTION 132
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501–507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.
1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives; 26–27, Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods. |
1. a woman who cohabits with a man to whom she is not legally married, esp. one regarded as socially or sexually subservient; mistress.We were speaking of Hagar, Abraham's second wife, or Concubine. She was his slave (lesser rank anyone), and he could have just kept her, but he made her his wife so her children would have the right to inherit. Then his first wife conceived and her son became the Heir apparent. This lowered her standing and led to her dismissal from the Abraham's party. Abraham did not however remove his name from her, so she was still his wife and Ishmael was still his son.
2. (among polygamous peoples) a secondary wife, usually of inferior rank.
3. (esp. formerly in Muslim societies) a woman residing in a harem and kept, as by a sultan, for sexual purposes.
A bit of circular logic ALWAYS helps one's case; right?
Don't Wrest the scriptures to your own destruction.
Good point.
We ALL know what happened to JS!
OK, first you include Isaac in your Biblical list of polygamists (earlier post). Then you toss him out of that category ?
So let me get this straight, Isaac is never said to only have one wife.
OK. We know the Bible describes a high love Isaac had for Rebekah. So if you think he had another wife, what was her name? (Typical conjecture based upon nothingness)
Listen, the only reason you included him to begin with is because, yes you did use Joseph's filter to define him -- 'cause tis no other source claiming Isaac was a polygamist.
So let me get this straight, Isaac is never said to only have one wife. His father Abraham had many wives and Concubines. His son had more than one wife...
Then, you resort to guilt by association: "Oh, his father slept with the help one night, and his son was duped into marrying a second wife. He must have been double-dipping, too."
(And try as you might, we don't know if Abram slept with Hagar one night, one week, or one month. We know she took off as soon as Sarai discovered she was pregnant...and if we go by the typical Mormon argument applied to Joe Smith that less fertility = less sleeping with the person, then obviously Hagar wasn't one that stuck with Abraham).
We do know that God regarded the whole matter as a lack of faith-- of a woman who took things into her own hands -- convinced she wouldn't be able to bear a child for Abram. The Biblical account is miles away from Smith's rendering centuries after the fact that God told Abram to do it (D&C 132). [We know that's false anyway -- Abraham was Abram at the time...Smith cites "Abraham" -- which is like saying "Saul" did something pre-conversion to "Paul" and then saying, "Go & do likewise" -- Note that God told Abram he had to covenant with him AFTER his faithless actions in Gen 17 to get Abram moving in a new direction as Abraham]
Moses? All have recorded more than one wife in the Bible. The use of a fact by someone making an argument you don't like, does not in any way negate the fact being quoted.
I can cite several current & recent Lds general authorities who have "recorded" more than one wife. So what? Just because I say it still makes the issue of concurrent wives an argument from total silence. (Oh, sure, you might tell me they were married to these wives serially but I'll act like you: Unless you can show me the death certificates & wedding certificates of their wives, then to be consistent with your logic, I'll otherwise assume they were/are polygamists...No matter what, I'll be closer to what Mormons regard as "truth" -- because in your eyes, these general authorites are eternal polygamists!)
So you would say Sari gave Hagar to Abraham to be his woman? So what, she is his wife, they had no better way to say it.
Yes, I would say that because a slave woman is a possession issue. Hagar was Sarai's ownership issue -- not Abram's. She could have easily been saying to Abram: "Hagar is MY slave woman. I give her to you to be YOUR slave woman (sexually)." We know the whole thing was an act of faithlessness. Sarai didn't trust God's promise. She resorted to earthly means. The result was the people group that led to the Muslim break-out upon the earth...and neither Moses (Gen. 21) nor the apostle Paul (Gal. 4) speak positively of the consequences.
...for the slave, the alternative is to be a sex slave with no rights whatsoever, so of course the will say yes, it's a step up, socially.
Wow! That's like saying that although a minor girl cannot consent to sexual intercourse with an adult outside of marriage, that "the alternative is to be a rape victim with no rights whatsoever, so of course the teen minor will say yes, it's a step up, socially to be the 'girlfriend' of an adult vs. a rape victim." (I'm telling you, DU, the lack of sexual ethics in your cultural heritage has fogged your thinking)
The most literal translation is mia gune aner - one women man (cue country western music). If your 'translation' was to be correct, the passage in Greek would have been τουλάχιστον μία γυναίκα (at least one woman). However the greek reads μιᾶς γυναικὸς ἄνδρες. The "at least" is totally absent from your translation (unless you are pulling a joey smith and are channeling a new translation).
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