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I'm sure this will offend the entire Catholic folks here, but I was raised in the old "Traditions", have had a dialogue Mass since I was a child ... in Latin then in English, before there was permission, in fact. Oh those awful Carmelite priests of my parish.

I am a Novus Ordo person ... perhaps a VERY OCCASIONAL return to the past would be OK -- but to say all of the negative things I read here as universal faults is pretty "Phariseetic" of many.

Of course, I would OBEY what is dictated by the Magesterium, but to condemn all music that is not a drag as being distracting is a pretty broad brush.

We have three ethnic languages in our Parish, English, Spanish and Tagalog ... all get attention at different Masses. The music goes in hand with the ethnicity of the Mass.

Our "guitars", etc. are respectful and inspire cohesive participation. I love most of it ... I know all of the old Latin Standards as well and understand them ... I'll take the new, particularly those based on the psalms.

I skip most of these threads, but feeling angry and dissassociated is pretty sad for a practicing Catholic to have to feel about those who look down their holy noses at me and those like me.

To insinuate that people are leaving for evangelical type religions is not a reflection on the Services differences, it is more likely the lack of anything but the nicey-nicey babble that is coming from the pulpit in the Catholic Church and the wishy washy Bishops and hierarchy in the Catholic Church in this country.

In no way am I associated or otherwise sympathetic or connected with the new wave schisms in the Church (the rebel sisters, etc), I am just who I am proud to be ... a living, breathing, active participant with all of you in our roles in the Mystical Body of Christ.

If it is respectful, and consistent with the ethnic culture of your parish, then of course it is no problem.

The problem is not being 'holier than thou' - and you might hesitate before accusing others of that, isn't that itself 'holier than thou'? (you can go round and round with that one - relativism in disguise) - but being aware of abuses of the liturgy.

It's one thing to have music that is familiar and consistent with the traditions of the congregation -- quite another to have innovation just for the sake of innovation. Rome has made it quite clear that things that are appropriate culturally are one thing (dancing in Africa for example), while adopting things that are inappropriate culturally is wrong.

What we have seen in ordinary suburban American parishes is an almost frantic adoption of multi-culti, exhibitionist practices that are not holy or conducive to worship but completely foreign to the tradition. Many times they come straight from Hollywood and Broadway and pop or rock music.

Many of us call for a turning back to the older traditions of a quiet, reverent Mass, chant, Renaissance polyphony and traditional hymns as a counterweight to what Kipling called "The Lust for Newness". It's not holier than thou, but a desire for holiness that drives this.

It's a real shame when the Sacrifice of the Mass and the Real Presence are hidden by raucous pop music, glad-handing, and failure to abide by the norms.

Music and reverent celebration by themselves mean nothing, of course. As I said before, the Episcopalians are a bunch of screaming heretics, but in some quarters they retain the knowledge of good music and even reverent celebration.

Still, it seems to me a real shame when the Episcopalians 'get it', but Catholics don't abide by the Holy Father's explicit directions for reverence in music and liturgy, and even worse don't abide by the actual instructions of VCII but some goofy idea of the 'spirit of VCII' which is just their own inclinations.