The Dormition of our Most Holy Lady the Theotokos and Ever Virgin Mary

Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America ^

[Kolokotronis]

Synaxarion:

Concerning the Dormition of the Theotokos, this is what the Church has received from ancient times from the tradition of the Fathers. When the time drew nigh that our Savior was well-pleased to take His Mother to Himself, He declared unto her through an Angel that three days hence, He would translate her from this temporal life to eternity and bliss. On hearing this, she went up with haste to the Mount of Olives, where she prayed continuously. Giving thanks to God, she returned to her house and prepared whatever was necessary for her burial. While these things were taking place, clouds caught up the Apostles from the ends of the earth, where each one happened to be preaching, and brought them at once to the house of the Mother of God, who informed them of the cause of their sudden gathering. As a mother, she consoled them in their affliction as was meet, and then raised her hands to Heaven and prayed for the peace of the world. She blessed the Apostles, and, reclining upon her bed with seemliness, gave up her all-holy spirit into the hands of her Son and God. With reverence and many lights, and chanting burial hymns, the Apostles took up that God-receiving body and brought it to the sepulchre, while the Angels from Heaven chanted with them, and sent forth her who is higher than the Cherubim. But one Jew, moved by malice, audaciously stretched forth his hand upon the bed and immediately received from divine judgment the wages of his audacity. Those daring hands were severed by an invisible blow. But when he repented and asked forgiveness, his hands were restored. When they had reached the place called Gethsemane, they buried there with honor the all-immaculate body of the Theotokos, which was the source of Life. But on the third day after the burial, when they were eating together, and raised up the artos (bread) in Jesus' Name, as was their custom, the Theotokos appeared in the air, saying "Rejoice" to them. From this they learned concerning the bodily translation of the Theotokos into the Heavens.

These things has the Church received from the traditions of the Fathers, who have composed many hymns out of reverence, to the glory of the Mother of our God.

Apolytikion in the First Tone

In birth, you preserved your virginity; in death, you did not abandon the world, O Theotokos. As mother of life, you departed to the source of life, delivering our souls from death by your intercessions.

Kontakion in the Second Tone

Neither the grave nor death could contain the Theotokos, the unshakable hope, ever vigilant in intercession and protection. As Mother of life, He who dwelt in the ever-virginal womb transposed her to life.

[getoffmylawn]

Please stop squirming and answer these specific questions posed to you with specific answers please.

There's no use in respecting Kolokotronis, or kosta50. They're just a couple of Balkan Mountain Bandits, and next to me - probably the biggest sinners to ever sign in to Freerepublic. ;-)

[kosta50]

There's no use in respecting Kolokotronis, or kosta50.

Not to worry, there is no respect for me. But that's okay, I don't care—my pay is the same. :)

They're just a couple of Balkan Mountain Bandits, and next to me - probably the biggest sinners to ever sign in to Freerepublic

You bet! :)

[Iscool]

But if you deny that Mary is the Mother of God, then you have to believe one of:
1. Mary is not Jesus' mother
2. Jesus is not God
3. Jesus (the Second Person of the Trinity) and Jesus (the Galilean carpenter born of the Virgin Mary in a stable) are two distinct persons

Says You...

There is a fourth option apparently you guys know nothing about...

It is being born again...Born from above...The circumcision made without hands...Putting on the new man...

I can explain it to you but you still won't get it because you won't believe it...

But let me ask you a question...Can God the Father be killed??? The obvious answer should be 'NO'...Then how is it that Jesus; God come in the flesh, was killed???

[wagglebee]

Then how is it that Jesus; God come in the flesh, was killed???

I will ask again, do you belong to some sort of Nestorian subsect which also denies the Resurrection and the Ascension?

You certainly SEEM to subscribe to Campion's third choice which is that Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Trinity and Jesus the man who was born in Bethlehem and was crucified on Good Friday are TWO distinct persons.

[Kolokotronis]

“Then how is it that Jesus; God come in the flesh, was killed???”

Exactly what the Mohammedans ask. Been reading the Koran again, I?

[wagglebee]

And, if Jesus was “born again” WHEN did this event occur? Was it when John the Baptist baptized Him? Was He a sinner prior to this?

[Iscool]

“Then how is it that Jesus; God come in the flesh, was killed???”

Exactly what the Mohammedans ask. Been reading the Koran again, I?

And no doubt your response to the muzlims is, 'what, you been reading the bible again'???

[Iscool]

And, if Jesus was “born again” WHEN did this event occur? Was it when John the Baptist baptized Him? Was He a sinner prior to this?

Bible says Jesus never sinned...Why would you doubt this???

Jesus was born a baby (in the flesh)...After 33 years, the baby had aged to be a 33 year old man...Had Jesus not died on the Cross, Jesus in the flesh would have eventually died of old age...

And I'll bet you're ready to blow a cork on that one...

[Kolokotronis]

“And no doubt your response to the muzlims is, ‘what, you been reading the bible again’???”

Oh, not at all, I. In fact, I have had this discussion with the local imam and had a grand time telling him about Nestorius’ influence on Mohammad on this very subject. He actually looked it up and admitted that Nestorius and Mohammad taught the same thing about Christ crucified...and went on to argue that Nestorius was a Mohammedan without knowing it!

[wagglebee]

Jesus was born a baby (in the flesh)...After 33 years, the baby had aged to be a 33 year old man...Had Jesus not died on the Cross, Jesus in the flesh would have eventually died of old age...

So, WHEN was He "born again"? What was the SPECIFIC event?

Was He God during those 33 years?

If the wages of sin is death, WHY would He have died?

[Petronski]

Corn popping . . .

LOL

[Iscool]

If the wages of sin is death, WHY would He have died?

He would have died because He did die...Because He could die (in the flesh)

The physical body of Jesus in Heaven is not the same physical body that He had while on earth...His body on earth died...But yet Jesus has never died, never will...

[wagglebee]

The physical body of Jesus in Heaven is not the same physical body that He had while on earth...His body on earth died...But yet Jesus has never died, never will...

Please explain EXACTLY when this happened.

What happened to His Body in the tomb?

WHEN did the Word become Flesh and dwell among us?

[Iscool]

What happened to His Body in the tomb?

It got changed...It is not the same body Jesus died in...

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The same thing that happened to Jesus in His Resurrection will happen to us when we Christians go up...

[Kolokotronis]

"Please explain EXACTLY when this happened.

What happened to His Body in the tomb?"

Here's what happened:

Synaxarion:

The Lord Jesus passed forty days on earth after His Resurrection from the dead, appearing continually in various places to His disciples, with whom He also spoke, ate, and drank, thereby further demonstrating His Resurrection. On this Thursday, the fortieth day after Pascha, He appeared again in Jerusalem. After He had first spoken to the disciples about many things, He gave them His last commandment, that is, that they go forth and proclaim His Name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. But He also commanded them that for the present, they were not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait there together until they receive power from on high, when the Holy Spirit would come upon them.

Saying these things, He led them to the Mount of Olives, and raising His hands, He blessed them; and saying again the words of the Father's blessing, He was parted from them and taken up. Immediately a cloud of light, a proof of His majesty, received Him. Sitting thereon as though on a royal chariot, He was taken up into Heaven, and after a short time was concealed from the sight of the disciples, who remained where they were with their eyes fixed on Him. At this point, two Angels in the form of men in white raiment appeared to them and said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into Heaven? This same Jesus, Who is taken up from you into Heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into Heaven" (Acts 1:11). These words, in a complete and concise manner, declare what is taught in the Symbol of Faith concerning the Son and Word of God. Therefore, having so fulfilled all His dispensation for us, our Lord Jesus Christ ascended in glory into Heaven, and sat at the right hand of God the Father. As for His sacred disciples, they returned from the Mount of Olives to Jerusalem, rejoicing because Christ had promised to send them the Holy Spirit.

It should be noted that the Mount of Olives is a Sabbath's day journey from Jerusalem, that is, the distance a Jew was permitted to walk on the day of the Sabbath. Ecumenius writes, "A Sabbath day's journey is one mile in length, as Clement says in his fifth Stromatis; it is two thousand cubits, as the Interpretation of the Acts states." They draw this conclusion from the fact that, while they were in the wilderness, the Israelites of old kept within this distance from the Holy Tabernacle, whither they walked on the Sabbath day to worship God.

Apolytikion in the Fourth Tone

O Christ our God, You ascended in Glory and gladdened Your disciples by the promise of the Holy Spirit. Your blessing assured them that You are the Son of God, the Redeemer of the world.

Kontakion in the Plagal of the Second Tone

O Christ our God, upon fulfilling Your dispensation for our sake, You ascended in Glory, uniting the earthly with the heavenly. You were never separate but remained inseparable, and cried out to those who love You, "I am with you and no one is against you."

[wagglebee]

Perfect! Far better than some Nestorian multi-body explanation.

The Word became Flesh, flesh DID NOT become the Word.

[Kolokotronis]

Ummm, how about this?

"Θωμᾶς δὲ εἷς ἐκ τῶν δώδεκα, ὁ λεγόμενος Δίδυμος, οὐκ ἦν μετ' αὐτῶν ὅτε ἦλθεν Ἰησοῦς. ἔλεγον οὖν αὐτῷ οἱ ἄλλοι μαθηταί, Ἑωράκαμεν τὸν κύριον. ὁ δὲ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς, Ἐὰν μὴ ἴδω ἐν ταῖς χερσὶν αὐτοῦ τὸν τύπον τῶν ἥλων καὶ βάλω τὸν δάκτυλόν μου εἰς τὸν τύπον τῶν ἥλων καὶ βάλω μου τὴν χεῖρα εἰς τὴν πλευρὰν αὐτοῦ, οὐ μὴ πιστεύσω. Καὶ μεθ' ἡμέρας ὀκτὼ πάλιν ἦσαν ἔσω οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ καὶ Θωμᾶς μετ' αὐτῶν. ἔρχεται ὁ Ἰησοῦς τῶν θυρῶν κεκλεισμένων, καὶ ἔστη εἰς τὸ μέσον καὶ εἶπεν, Εἰρήνη ὑμῖν. εἶτα λέγει τῷ Θωμᾷ, Φέρε τὸν δάκτυλόν σου ὧδε καὶ ἴδε τὰς χεῖράς μου, καὶ φέρε τὴν χεῖρά σου καὶ βάλε εἰς τὴν πλευράν μου, καὶ μὴ γίνου ἄπιστος ἀλλὰ πιστός. ἀπεκρίθη Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ, Ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου. λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς, Ὅτι ἑώρακάς με πεπίστευκας; μακάριοι οἱ μὴ ἰδόντες καὶ πιστεύσαντες."

Looks pretty real to me, but maybe the English translation got it wrong and is different. You can find various versions claiming to be good translations of John 20:24-29....

[wagglebee]

Excellent post!

The other question would be, what happened to the first body? Was it stolen from His tomb? And most importantly, if He required a new Body to be God, the Word of God would be NOTHING more than the word of a man.

[Quix]

Excellent post.

Gotta save that one.

Thanks.

[Quix]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

SCRIPTURE IS

HOWEVER,

Full of everything God The Father decided was important for us to know . . . in terms of Christian life; relationship with Father, Son, Spirit . . . and living eternally with God.

CLEARLY, nonsense about Mary was not part of such important stuff.