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To: PugetSoundSoldier

***Read post 667. I’ve shown you this dozens of times and each time you simply ignore it. No surprise...***

You have not shown me this dozens of times. I don’t remember you showing me this more than once and I showed you the error of it then. If you wish, let us go through the lesson again:

14You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
15and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Let us make note of the point that the sacred writings here are the OT and that the OT is there to give wisdom. Paul is trying to sell the new religion to the Gentiles in Ephesus. And, he is also trying to convince Timothy to set up succession for himself, as he set Timothy up to replace himself. Paul is writing from imprisonment in Rome, to set the stage.

16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

All Scripture is inspired by God. As the Councils decreed. So that every man may be adequate, equipped for every good work. But the Reformation has denied the importance of good works. Therefore, with nothing referencing salvation, one’s soul, or eternal life with God, where is your basis now? Good works are minimized in the Reformers’ eyes. Where is Biblical sufficiency for other than the filthy rags?


680 posted on 09/08/2009 8:12:33 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr
You have not shown me this dozens of times. I don’t remember you showing me this more than once and I showed you the error of it then. If you wish, let us go through the lesson again:

You never show the error, because you refuse to address the actual question. You create strawmen that you attack, and claim victory over that.

Let us make note of the point that the sacred writings here are the OT and that the OT is there to give wisdom. Paul is trying to sell the new religion to the Gentiles in Ephesus. And, he is also trying to convince Timothy to set up succession for himself, as he set Timothy up to replace himself. Paul is writing from imprisonment in Rome, to set the stage.

See Annalex's post just two up (678). We agree that the Scriptures and oral teachings at the time of Timothy are sufficient for salvation.

You're trying to change what is being said, to twist it to support some succession! READ THE VERSES! They are quite explicit: the teachings and writings at the time of Timothy are sufficient for a man to be saved.

These verses say NOTHING of the succession of leaders, nothing of convincing Gentiles of Christ. They tell about how Timothy should be strong because he knows everything needed to spread the Word of God!

All Scripture is inspired by God. As the Councils decreed.

The councils decreed nothing; God decreed it. The councils merely confirmed what God already did. The councils are subservient to God; the cannot limit what He does.

So that every man may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Yes, we have been prepared for salvation by the writings and teachings at the time of Timothy. We are thus prepared to do the good works that Christ calls us to do.

But the Reformation has denied the importance of good works.

Then you are wrong about the Reformation. It has denied that good works gain you entry into Heaven! Salvation is from faith, and faith alone.

On earth, good works can be a sign of a man's salvation; what is good in us will be manifest in what we do. But if a man does millions of good works, yet refuses Christ, he is not saved.

Works are immaterial to salvation; they may be an example of a person's potential salvation, but they gain you nothing in your salvation.

That is opposite of much of the teachings of the Catholic Church at the time of Luther. You cannot work or buy your way into Heaven; God cannot be bribed! Thus to concern yourself with doing good works is waste; the motive behind your good works are repulsive to God.

Good works should be done as an expression of what is inside you, and should come without thinking, naturally. In fact, Jesus told us - by his example - to keep our good works to ourselves, to not brag or boast or share about what we do! God knows what we do, and why we do it; boasting or publicly performing good works is not good in the eyes of God.

So, rather than your contention that Protestants deny good works, I would counter that we deny the use of good works to earn "brownie points" with God. We understand that good works that come from true internal salvation and faith in Christ are natural from that salvation and faith; anything else is simply an attempt to bribe God, and that is evil in intent.

Therefore, with nothing referencing salvation, one’s soul, or eternal life with God, where is your basis now?

Tell me, is just saying a few rosaries going to gain you entry into Heaven? Will it lower your supposed time in Purgatory? Does not the REASON you say the rosary matter? Or is it just the actions themselves?

You ignore the motive for the actions; that is exactly what Christ was warning about when He told his disciples "tell no one of what I just did", as He performed some of His miracles. It wasn't about WHAT was done, it was about WHY it was done.

Emphasizing works in relation to salvation ignores the why, and focuses on the what. Which is EXACTLY OPPOSITE of what Christ called us to do.

Where is Biblical sufficiency for other than the filthy rags?

I don't understand what you are saying here.

683 posted on 09/08/2009 8:28:57 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the Defense of the Indefensible)
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