Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: annalex
That sounds problematic. First, the scripture simply says "Noe was a just and perfect man in his generations, he walked with God" (D-R Gen 6:9). The focus is on how he "walked" even before any law was given to him, let alone to Israel. More fundamentally, we Catholics do not believe there are two atonements, one for Israel and another for Christians. We believe that the work of Christ on the Cross atoned for all sin, including, retroactively, sins of the Jews and Gentiles prior to Christ. The historical role of Israel was to receive special law much like a beloved child receives extra schooling, in order to prepare the human race for the Redeemer, Who alone atones for anyone, Jew or Gentile, who would "walk" with Him. That schooling was not salvific in itself. It was, simply put, there to produce Mary the ever Virgin, who would be a fit mother for the Incarnate God.

Are you saying that Moses introduced new law never before known to Israel when he received the Ten Commandments?

Also, are you reading Genesis 6:9 literally or as a metaphor? That is did Noah walk with God as in walking or simply following precepts.

So Catholics believe the Israelite's understanding of the Atonement, animal sacrifice and "repentance" were incorrect or insufficient?

656 posted on 09/06/2009 5:24:18 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 550 | View Replies ]


To: 1010RD
Are you saying that Moses introduced new law never before known to Israel when he received the Ten Commandments?

There are three sets of laws in the scope of our conversation, according to the Catholic Church. First, there is natural law; this is the law "written in the hearts of men" (Romans 2:15) that men obey due to the call of their conscience and natural reason. No one needs to give people a law that would say that God is to be loved, men naturally know that it is reasonable that they are to love their creator. When they fail at loving God they fail not because they were not given that law, but because they do not follow their conscience under stress. This state of affairs allowed Noah to love God even before any dispensation of law occurred. He was naturally perfect. (Abel is another example of such natural love of God).

Second, there are the Noachide commandments, usually summarized as 7 in number, that were given Noah (Gen 9); they are not as strong as the Ten commandments given Moses. Unlike natural law, these are codified, precise instructions. In His loving kindness God gave them so that men can find it easier to properly form their consciences.

Thirdly, there are the Ten Commandments given Moses, and through Moses, to the Jews. They develop and strengthen the Noachide commandments. Then more instruction followed, the total number of commandments given the Jews is just over 600.

So these are three different things, and the Natural Law underlies all the precise commandments. Note that we, as Christians, obey the Ten Commandments not because they were given through Moses to the Jews (if we did, we'd have to obey all 600+), but because they are also natural law. Jesus repeated most of them and explained them, and brought them out of the realm of jurisprudence back into the realm of human conscience and its proper function of loving God(Matthew 5-7).

are you reading Genesis 6:9 literally or as a metaphor?

I read it literally, but I understand the idiomatic usage of "walk". I think that it is clear that the inspired author wanted to tell us that Noah was a perfect, sinless man, and also to understand that one becomes perfect by "walking" with God, that is, doing everything as if God is right next to you.

So Catholics believe the Israelite's understanding of the Atonement, animal sacrifice and "repentance" were incorrect or insufficient?

Yes, insufficient. They were correct because God gave them to them, but they were given them in order to prefigure for them the perfect sacrifice of Christ and atonement of sin that flowed therefrom, and teach them repentance. This is what plan, or "economy" of salvation is all about: the gradual revelation of God, initially to the Jews and now to all nations. It is not unlike rearing a child: initially you giove a child simple rules and punish him for violating them. But as the child grows, your plan evolves: you rely less on the rules and more on the intellect of the child, so that out of a child an adult is formed.

660 posted on 09/06/2009 8:11:27 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 656 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson