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To: PugetSoundSoldier
I fully agree, and I'm sure theologically that is what the Catholic Church wants to say

I am sure some Catholics would say that, but not all, and certainly not the Magisterium. I also find that, on the one hand, they say Muslims are included in the plan of salvation, but on the other hand they add a stipulation—rather, a rationalization—that a Muslim who was saved actually, consciously or not,  "converted" in his heart,  and died a "Catholic!" As they say: everyone in heaven is a Catholic.

As far as the Protestants are concerned, as long as they have been baptized in what is perceived to be a Catholic  baptism, they are actually "Catholics" even if they don't exclude yourself form the visible Church by being rebellious.

There is also way too much "legalese" involved, but, hey, that is understandable considering how Christianity was put together: you had to make sense of things that were stitched together from things that had nothing to do with each other. Expecting it to be straight forward is simply not realistic.

This apparent open minded approach of the Cathoic Church on closer scrutiny reveals that all "true" religions are really closet Catholic faiths, and that those who are saved are "Catholic" even if they never heard of Catholic or know what Catholic means. That way the Church can insist that only "Catholics: go to heaven without appearing hegemonistic or chauvinsitic.

But, in all fairness, the Evangelicals are no different. They go all over the world to convert people to Christ because they believe one is saved only through him. What differs between the Catholics and the Evangelicals is just the label. Instead of calling the "saved" Catholics, they are called Christians!

592 posted on 09/03/2009 8:19:44 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: kosta50
As far as the Protestants are concerned, as long as they have been baptized in what is perceived to be a Catholic baptism, they are actually "Catholics" even if they don't exclude yourself form the visible Church by being rebellious.

It's rather confusing; in the Catechism, if I never heard of Jesus I could be saved, but since I have heard of Jesus and am not Catholic my salvation is in doubt. In this thread I'm being told by Catholics that they will not sit in judgment of my relationship with God, yet they will deny me the sacrament of communion in their Church because I don't have a relationship with God.

Essentially, if you are to be saved, you better be Catholic or be a lost-tribesman in the Amazon - those are your only choices!

But, in all fairness, the Evangelicals are no different. They go all over the world to convert people to Christ because they believe one is saved only through him. What differs between the Catholics and the Evangelicals is just the label. Instead of calling the "saved" Catholics, they are called Christians!

To a large extent, I would agree. But I'd also say that Evangelicals are unequivocal about this: the only way to salvation is through Jesus. Just believing in God isn't enough. You must accept Jesus as the Savior. That's what Jesus said, and it's good enough for me.

Additionally, I don't know too many evangelicals, and I don't know ANY doctrine, that says Catholics or Orthodox or other evangelical churches aren't saved because they are in a different church. We may disagree on how to worship, and some of the smaller doctrines, but your faith and your salvation are up to you and God, not some church and it's doctrines.

We're glad to call you Christian whether Catholic, Orthodox, Baptist, Methodist, or Lutheran! Unfortunately, one "Church" on that list doesn't see things the same way...

601 posted on 09/03/2009 3:39:56 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the Defense of the Indefensible)
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