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To: MarkBsnr; PugetSoundSoldier
And the condemnation, we believe is actually of the individual; God merely confirms it at the Judgement

What is being taught today in both sides of the Church is that it is a choice which God acknowledges. I wouldn't even call it a "condemnation," because it is, after all, a choice of the "condemned." This is what they did, knowingly and willingly.

In other words, if you see signs along the highway that say "This way to heaven" and a traffic cop pointing in that direction and you ignore them it is hardly a "condemnation" if you miss the exist and end up somewhere else.

However let's not forget that, while this may seem fair and reasonable and just to the human mind, this is hardly the biblical view of the final decision.

The Church also vehemently teaches that it is God who saves, not us, that salvation cannot be earned or worked for. Yet this is not fully consistent either because salvation, as taught by the Church, is not an 'act' of God as much as it is a result of man's cooperation with God.

Christ's sacrifice on the Cross is seen as freeing man to be able to follow God freely, in other words—to take the right exist, by choice and on his own will, without coercion, being pulled by the ring in his nose, or a divine tractor beam attached to his forehead.

I think Matthew 25 also distinguishes 'going through the motions' and genuine intent. In other words, it is not enough to just believe, or volunteer in soup kitchens, or tithe, or receive the Eucharist every Sunday, but whether it is genuine and from the heart and with pure intent, not in order to score another point.

Saved are those who do good who do not think of or even know nothing of salvation and going to heaven, who do not count on it, who do not do so to please the Church, God, society or themselves, but for the sake of righteousness and nothing else. The intent must be pure and selfless.

Of course, there is a problem what righteousness is and how do we know our sense of righteousness is not corrupt. But that's another issue.

552 posted on 09/01/2009 9:48:44 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: kosta50

***What is being taught today in both sides of the Church is that it is a choice which God acknowledges. I wouldn’t even call it a “condemnation,” because it is, after all, a choice of the “condemned.” This is what they did, knowingly and willingly.

In other words, if you see signs along the highway that say “This way to heaven” and a traffic cop pointing in that direction and you ignore them it is hardly a “condemnation” if you miss the exist and end up somewhere else.***

Exactly so; but there are many traffic cops and so many other aids along the way, it’s sometimes difficult not to know the Via of Christ.

***However let’s not forget that, while this may seem fair and reasonable and just to the human mind, this is hardly the biblical view of the final decision.

The Church also vehemently teaches that it is God who saves, not us, that salvation cannot be earned or worked for. Yet this is not fully consistent either because salvation, as taught by the Church, is not an ‘act’ of God as much as it is a result of man’s cooperation with God.

Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross is seen as freeing man to be able to follow God freely, in other words—to take the right exist, by choice and on his own will, without coercion, being pulled by the ring in his nose, or a divine tractor beam attached to his forehead.***

I believe that the Holy Spirit does come along and nudge and poke and drop things into the individual’s path. I’ve had a number of little coincidental things happen. I don’t believe in repeated coincidence. Many people, though, do not notice these things or willfully ignore them.

***I think Matthew 25 also distinguishes ‘going through the motions’ and genuine intent. In other words, it is not enough to just believe, or volunteer in soup kitchens, or tithe, or receive the Eucharist every Sunday, but whether it is genuine and from the heart and with pure intent, not in order to score another point.***

The pure in heart will see God. It is the imitation of Christ both physically and spiritually that we will be Judged on.


562 posted on 09/01/2009 2:15:00 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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