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To: MarkBsnr

“Satan introduced the idea of individual interpretation of Scripture to the world.”

No, Satan introduced the idea that only a great leader of some sort can understand it. That is why all cults keep interpretation of scripture to themselves. Nothing in the Temptation of Jesus suggests we are not supposed to study scripture ourselves, or listen to the Holy Spirit. On the contrary - it teaches us to study, memorize, and be ready to apply Scripture - the exact OPPOSITE of what you claim.

In 2 Peter, we are NOT told to avoid studying scripture. Quite the contrary. The passage you cite - as Catholics love to do - has a two-fold meaning.

Translated by the NIV: “20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”

The ESV has: “...that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. 21For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”

Note, it does NOT say no one is to interpret scripture, since just before that it says “And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts...”

It doesn’t talk about the Church providing interpretation, etc. WE (”you”) are expected to study the scriptures.

Peter writes about the origin of scripture - it doesn’t come from the prophet’s own understanding, but from God. (”came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man”)

Not, ‘no one but the church can interpret scripture’, but ‘no prophecy of scripture COMES FROM personal interpretation’.

“Personal interpretation is proscribed.”

Wrong. It takes a serious misreading of 2 Peter to derive that! While it is not the primary meaning of the passage, it may be a valid second interpretation to say it teaches we need the Holy Spirit to teach us - that we cannot understand it apart from Him.

I have no idea what you are trying to show by the quote from Acts. All I see is that the lost need a preacher of the Word. Someone who has never heard of Jesus isn’t likely to fully understand the passages that refer to Him.

The church has the truth, of course. That is why the church has preachers and teachers, and I don’t devalue their ministry. I substitute teach often in church, and there is nothing improper about that. But in the end, “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth...” - John 16

I find the refusal of Catholics to trust the Holy Spirit to do what Jesus says He will do blasphemous.

I wrote: “If your Church teaches that only the Church knows the true interpretation of Scripture, then it devalues Scripture below its own teachings, since Scripture can only say what your Church allows it to say. Muzzling Scripture is evil.”

You responded, “Misinterpreting it is evil and taking on authority that you do not have is evil. The Church is authorized. Individuals are not.”

False claim. Jesus taught the Holy Spirit would “guide you into all the truth”. There isn’t a single passage in scripture teaching that we should leave interpretation to a church body of fallible men. There are multiple passages teaching us to study the scriptures ourselves. I take no authority for myself, but I will not deny the ministry of the Holy Spirit, as taught by Jesus Christ.

Remember, Jesus said, “31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” - Matt 12

PS - Luther regretted the proliferation of interpretations, but he never pulled his German translation off the market...


424 posted on 08/13/2009 1:31:04 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers; MarkBsnr
Nothing in the Temptation of Jesus suggests we are not supposed to study scripture ourselves, or listen to the Holy Spirit

How does the HS communicate with you and how do you know it is the Holy Spirit? Do you know what Holy Spirit is, and if so how? And if not, how can you 'recognize' the unknown?

In 2 Peter, we are NOT told to avoid studying scripture. Quite the contrary. The passage you cite - as Catholics love to do - has a two-fold meaning

Is this the same 2 Peter that wasn't written yet by the 3rd century, since no one even mentions it in their canons?

Translated by the NIV: “20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation

Isn't NIV the Bible version that ad libs when it comes to verses—adding words that are not in the "originals?" And how does the author of 2 Peter know that no prophesy of Scripture came about by prophet's own interpretation? Did he know each and every one of the prophets?

21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”

Oh, boy!

And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts...”

Is this the same morning star that was otherwise known as the "shining one" (i.e. luicfer), a Babylonian deity?

Peter writes about the origin of scripture - it doesn’t come from the prophet’s own understanding, but from God

But how do you know the individual preacher and/or Bible reader will interpret it correctly? You don't! But most people believe they interpret it correctly.

Of course, since there is no way to know anything for certain because everything in the religious realm is either "hope" or an a priori assumption, there is no way of ascertaining what is right and what is wrong.

False claim. Jesus taught the Holy Spirit would “guide you into all the truth”.

But everyone (and his brother) claims the Holy Spirit guides them!

Remember, Jesus said, “31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” - Matt 12

What constitutes blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and why? Who decides that? Where is it written and by what authority?

433 posted on 08/13/2009 3:11:35 PM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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