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To: bronxville
The idea that Mary had other children first surfaced from a guy named Helvidius around 380 A.D. and it caused quite a stir as no one held that belief at the time. Jerome, responded with a treatise called On the Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Mary.

Sorry but Jesus disagrees with you...

Psa 69:8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.

Jesus talked about his brothers and sisters long before Mary even showed up...

Under the word ‘brethren’ the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity.
{Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, (7:3)

But John 7 is written in Greek, not Hebrew...And the Greek word there for brethren means brother...

Luk 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

And the word cousin means, cousin...An extended relative; kin...

But what does it prove that your church fathers (for the most part) believed Mary was a perpetual virgin??? All it proves is that the one following copied the one before...Without any initial evidence or later evidence...

148 posted on 08/08/2009 4:51:28 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool

Iscool,
I know J. Vernon McGee would agree with you
in applying every verse in Psalm 69 to Christ
(and I like him), but not every verse in Psalm
69 is quoted in the NT and certainly not this
one.

Most would consider the Psalm “indirectly Messianic.”

And, since it is primarily about King David, I
believe the specific verse you quoted is about
him.

As another example, 69:5 says “You know my folly, O God; my guilt is not hidden from you,” and it is clearly not
about Christ.

Best,
ampu, non-Roman, non-Orthodox


150 posted on 08/08/2009 5:07:01 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Iscool

The flip side of sola scriptura is sola traditio...except the latter is biblical.

In words of John Dryden (1631- 1700)

The Hind and the Panther

What weight of ancient witness can prevail
If private reason holds the public scale?
‘As long as words a different sense will bear,
Our airy faith will no foundation find.
The Word’s weathercock for ev’ry wind.


158 posted on 08/08/2009 8:06:05 PM PDT by bronxville
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