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To: topcat54; TaraP
You assert that, because Jesus said we can know neither the exact day nor the exact hour of His coming, and that it will be an hour we do not expect, that we can have no sense of its approach. Is that a fair statement of your argument (omitting your dismissive remarks)?

If so, please consider:

1. Jesus could have used words other than day and hour, but He did not. He had "week" and "month" available, for example, but He restricted Himself to day and hour. Are we not free then to recognize the decade, year, month, and even week, if the Lord through His Spirit gives us the sensitivity and understanding to do so?

2. Does not the same Scr ipture which reports Jesus' unknowability of the day and hour also specifically permit and encourage us to recognize their increasing proximity? For in Hebrews 10 it says:
23 "Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. 25 Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching."

144 posted on 08/05/2009 12:11:17 PM PDT by Hebrews 11:6 (Do you REALLY believe that (1) God is, and (2) God is good?)
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To: Hebrews 11:6; plain talk; TaraP; Lee N. Field; Alex Murphy
You assert that, because Jesus said we can know neither the exact day nor the exact hour of His coming, and that it will be an hour we do not expect, that we can have no sense of its approach. Is that a fair statement of your argument (omitting your dismissive remarks)?

Jesus told His disciples, “Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.” (Matt. 24:44)

When you least expect it! Pretty clear, no? He is not fudging words like “exact hour” of His coming, as if we can know that it will be the month of July but not July 22 at 12:30 pm.

Can you explain what Matt. 24:44 means plainly and clearly without any “I can speculate on the timing” mumbo jumbo?

145 posted on 08/05/2009 12:32:43 PM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: Hebrews 11:6; plain talk; TaraP; Lee N. Field; Alex Murphy
2. Does not the same Scr ipture which reports Jesus' unknowability of the day and hour also specifically permit and encourage us to recognize their increasing proximity? For in Hebrews 10 it says: 23 "Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. 25 Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching."

This could be a reference to the death of a believer or to the approaching judgment against Jerusalem when the temple would be destroyed. I think this is most likely, since the context is about the insufficiency of the old covenant sacrificial system against the Blood of the Lamb shed on our behalf. The old system was just a pointer to the new.

John Gill says this:

and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching; either of death, or the last judgment, or rather of Jerusalem's destruction; which at the writing of this epistle was near at hand; and was an affair that greatly concerned these Hebrews; and by various symptoms might be observed by them, as approaching; and which was no inconsiderable argument to engage them to a diligent discharge of their duty; unless the day of darkness, infidelity, and blasphemy in the last days of the world, should be intended, after which will succeed the latter day glory.
The first half of Matthew 24 is also about the destruction of the temple in AD70 when Jesus gave definite signs of the event, including the “abomination of desolations” (aka Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, cf. Luke 21:22).

Many folks confuse that event, which had definite signs attached, with the Second Coming, which will be sudden and without warning, as a thief in the night.

147 posted on 08/05/2009 12:53:54 PM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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