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Scholar says Baptists neglect lessons from Virgin Mary
ABP ^ | July 30, 2009 | Robert Marus

Posted on 08/01/2009 1:51:11 PM PDT by NYer

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To: Not gonna take it anymore

Scripture in the order of the mass

Nearly everything we say at mass has its roots in Sacred Scripture. This guide will help you if anyone you know is in doubt about that. Catholics quote scripture all the time, and their actions are deeply scriptural. After all, scripture flowed out of the early Church. The Church came first, the New Testament and the canon of scripture second.

Greeting

Priest: In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. (Matt. 28:19)
People: Amen (1 Chr 16:36)
Priest: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. (2 Cor 13:13)
People: And also with you.

Liturgy of the Word

Penitential Rite

All: I confess to almighty God, and to you my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault. (Jas. 5:16) In my thoughts and in my words, (Rom. 12:16) In what I have done and what I have failed to do; (Jas 3:6) and I ask the Blessed Virgin Mary, all the angel and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God. (1 Thess 5:25)
Priest: May almighty God have mercy on us, forgive us our sins, and bring us to everlasting life. (1 John 1:9)
People: Amen (1 Chr 16:36)
All: Lord have mercy. (Tb 8:4) Christ have mercy. (1 Tim 1:2) Lord have mercy.

Gloria

All: Glory to God in the highest, and peace to his people on earth. (Luke 2:14)
Lord God, heavenly King, almighty God and Father, (Rev 19:6)
we worship you, (Rev. 22:9) we give you thanks, (Eph. 5:20)
we praise you for your glory. (Rev 7:12)
Lord Jesus Christ, only Son of the Father, (2 John 3)
Lord God, Lamb of God, you take away the sin of the world:
have mercy on us; (John 1:29)
You are seated at the right hand of the Father, receive our prayer. (Rom 8:34)
For you alone are the Holy One, (Luke 4:34)
You alone are Lord, You alone are the Most High, Jesus Christ. (Luke 1:32)
with the Holy Spirit, in the glory of God the Father. (John 14:26)

[The Liturgy of the Word consists of four readings from Scripture: the first is typically from the Old Testament, the second a psalm, followed by a reading from one of the epistles. Finally, the Gospel is proclaimed during which the people stand out of respect for the Word. The chosen readings change daily.]

A Sermon on the readings follows.

(2 Tim 4:1-2)

Profession of Faith

All: We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, (Gen 14:19) of all that is seen and unseen. (Col 1:16) We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, (Luke 1:35) eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God, begotten not made, one in being with the Father. (Heb 1:3) Through him all things were made. (John 1:2-3) For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: (John 3:13) by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, (Matt 1:18) and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:16) he suffered, died and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures. (1 Cor 15:3-4) He ascended into heaven (Luke 24:51) and is seated at the right hand of the Father. (Col 3:1) He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead (2 Tim 4:1) and his kingdom will have no end. (Luke 1:33) We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of Life, (Acts 2:17) who proceeds from the Father and the Son. (John 14:16) With the Father and Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the prophets. (1 Peter 1:10-11) We believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic Church. (Rom 12:5) We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. (Acts 2:38) We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. (Rom 6:5) Amen

Liturgy of the Eucharist

[The gifts are brought to the altar. These include the bread and wine and the offering collected from the people.] (Malachi 3:10)

Priest: Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this bread to offer, which earth has given and human hands have made. (Eccl. 3:13) It will become for us the bread of life. (John 6:35)
People: Blessed be God forever. (Ps 68:36)
Priest: Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this wine to offer, fruit of the vine and work of human hands. It will become our spiritual drink. (Luke 22:17-18)
People: Blessed be God forever. (Ps 68:36)
Priest: Pray, brethren, that our sacrifice may be acceptable to God, the almighty Father. (Heb. 12:28)
People: May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands for the praise and glory of his name, for our sake and the good of all his Church. (Ps 50:23)

Eucharistic Prayers

Priest: Lift up your hearts.
People: We lift them up to the Lord. (Lam 3:41)
Priest: Let us give thanks to the Lord Our God. (Col 3:17)
People: It is right to give him thanks and praise. (Col 1:3)

Preface Acclamation

All: Holy, holy, holy Lord, God of power and might, heaven and earth are full of your glory. (Is 6:3) Hosanna in the highest. Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. Hosanna in the highest. (Mark 11:9-10)

Eucharistic prayer

[There are four of these, based on ancient prayers of the Church. Eucharistic Prayer Two follows as an example:]

Priest: Lord, you are holy indeed, the fountain of all holiness. (2 Macc. 14:36) Let your spirit come upon these gifts (water and wine) to make them holy, so that they may become the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. Before he was given up to death, (Phil 2:8) a death he freely accepted, (John 10:17-18) he took bread and gave you thanks. He broke the bread, gave it to his disciples, and said: Take this all of you, and eat it: this is my body which will be given up for you. When supper was ended, he took the cup. Again he gave thanks and praise, gave the cup to his disciples, and said: Take this, all of you, and drink from it: this is the cup of my blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant. It will be shed for you and for all so that sins may be forgiven. Do this is memory of me. (Mark 14:22-25) Let us proclaim the mystery of faith.

All: Dying you destroyed our death, rising you restored our life, Lord Jesus, come in glory. (Heb 2:14-15)

Priest: In memory of his death and resurrection, we offer you, Father, this life-giving bread, this saving cup. (John 6:51) We thank you for counting us worthy to stand in your presence and serve you. May all of us who share in the body and blood of Christ be brought together in unity by the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor.10:17) Lord, remember your Church throughout the world; make us grow in love together with our Pope and our bishop, and all the clergy. Remember our brothers and sisters who have gone to their rest in the hope of rising again: bring them and all the departed into the light of your presence. (2 Macc 12:45-46) Have mercy on us all; make us worthy to share eternal life with Mary, the virgin Mother of God, with the apostles and with all the saints who have done your will throughout the ages. May we praise you in union with them, and give you glory though your Son, Jesus Christ. (2 Thes 1:4-5) Through him, with him, in him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor is yours, almighty Father, for ever and ever.

All: Amen. (Rom 11:36)

Communion Rite

The Lord’s Prayer:

All: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. (Matt 6:9-13)
Priest: Deliver us, Lord, from every evil and grant us peace in our day. In your mercy keep us from sin and protect us from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our savior, Jesus Christ. (John 17:15)
All: For the kingdom the power and the glory are yours, now and forever. Amen

Priest: Lord Jesus Christ, you said to your apostles; I leave you peace, my peace I give to you. (John 14:27) Look not on our sins, but on the faith of your Church, and grant us the peace and unity of your kingdom where you live forever and ever.
Priest: The peace of the Lord be with you always! (John 20:19)
People: And also with you!

[The priest then directs the people to exchange a sign, such as a handshake or a kiss, or a word of God’s peace to one another.]

Breaking of the Bread

All: Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world: have mercy on us. Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world: have mercy on us. Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace. (John 1:29)

Communion

Priest: This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Happy are those who are called to his supper. (Rev. 19:9)
People: Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed. (Matt 8:8)
[Communion is distributed to the faithful at the altar by the priest and lay ministers.] Dismissal Priest: Blessed be the name of the Lord. Now and forever. (Dan 2:20) May almighty God bless you, the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:51) Go in peace (Luke 7:50) to love and serve the Lord. (2 Chr 35:3)

[During the blessing the people make the Sign of the Cross, the traditional sign of the baptized and a public sign of their belief in the power of God.]

People: Thanks be to God. (2 Cor 9:15)


161 posted on 08/02/2009 12:34:26 PM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore
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To: Not gonna take it anymore

Oops forgot this line.

The formation on scripture in the mass came from Catechetics Online .


162 posted on 08/02/2009 12:37:17 PM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore
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To: Natural Law
If that is really what your pastor told you he lied......

Her pastor lies about a lot of things.

It's a vicious anti-Catholic cult.

163 posted on 08/02/2009 1:12:20 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Marysecretary
Um, I was over in Ireland in the 60s, and it wasn't true then either. My pastor is an Irishman with strong ties to his native country - he just celebrated the 45th anniversary of his ordination, he went to seminary there. It wasn't true when he was there either.

I think your pastor friend's enthusiasm and the Irish politeness to enthusiastic strangers may have colored his perception of the situation in Ireland and what actually occurred.

164 posted on 08/02/2009 1:12:58 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Marysecretary
Our pastor, when a young college student, went on a missions trip to Ireland to bring the Word to the Catholics there.

Proselytizing fellow Christians. Sounds like a real scumbag.

Did he get his mitts on anyone's retirement funds, or was the trip a failure?

The church had kept the Bible from the people themselves for whatever reason.

He's a liar.

They distributed Bibles to them. Pretty soon there were Bible studies and people started getting saved. One day he noticed a group of them in a tight circle praying in tongues to a statue of Mary.

Surrrre he did.   LOL

165 posted on 08/02/2009 1:18:12 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: AnAmericanMother

That “pastor” of hers is a real piece of work.


166 posted on 08/02/2009 1:19:55 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Marysecretary
This took place many years ago and things were different then.

It's your story, tell it however you want. LOL

Now the Church seems to be better about allowing and even encouraging their parishioners to read the Bible.

The phrase "seems to be better about allowing" [parishioners to read the Bible] is another filthy anti-Catholic slander.

167 posted on 08/02/2009 1:22:07 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Petronski

Well, I spent some time in Ireland in the 60s, and that story certainly seems inconsistent with anything I observed there at the time.


168 posted on 08/02/2009 1:22:26 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother
Never expect the truth from a grifter. If a grifter speaks the truth or lies, it's to suit his con and nothing more.
169 posted on 08/02/2009 1:25:26 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: NYer

“In John 19:25 we read, “Standing by the foot of the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary of Magdala.”

And in Mark 15.40, we read, “There were also some women looking on from a distance, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the Less and Joses, and Salome.”

Matthew 27: “55 Many women were there looking on from a distance, who had followed Jesus from Galilee while ministering to Him. 56 Among them was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.”

From a website on Greek (since I don’t speak or read it), “One thing to keep in mind is that the autographs (the original Greek manuscripts as written by the NT writers) had no punctuation, no casing, no spaces, and were not formatted at all — they were typically just a sheer block of letters on a page, or columns on a page.”

Another one says, “The earliest form of the letters was the capital, used in inscriptions out in stone. A modification of this used for manuscripts is called uncial. All Biblical manuscripts in Greek before the 10th cent. A.D. were written in uncials. It is important for the reader to keep in mind the lateness of some of the editorial devices. The earliest uncial manuscripts were even without breaks between the words. Breathings, accents, and punctuation marks-which often greatly influence the translation-are later editorial additions and should be treated as such.”

This becomes apparent when you look at the difference between how the NIV punctuates John 19.25 (”25Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.”) and the ESV (”but standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.”)

Both are perfectly correct translations.

The NIV lists 4 - 1: his mother, 2: his mother’s sister, 3: Mary the wife of Clopas, and 4: Mary Magdalene.

The ESV has 3 - 1: his mother and 2: his mother’s sister, (Mary the wife of Clopas), and 3: Mary Magdalene.

Since two sisters are not likely to be both named Mary, either Mary was called sister but was a cousin, or Mary is separate from “his mother’s sister”.

We have no idea if Salome drew closer, or if there were any others of the “Many women [who] were there looking on from a distance...” who did so. John had used the word for kinsman in the previous chapter, so he knew it. Either he used sister here in the broader sense (possible), or he was including a 4th woman. The text itself doesn’t reveal it.


170 posted on 08/02/2009 1:45:54 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Marysecretary; NYer

John 6:

“37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”


171 posted on 08/02/2009 1:49:57 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: AnAmericanMother; Petronski

The reality is that even in the Republic of Ireland, Catholics and Protestants really don’t like or trust each other all that much and avoid each other if at all possible. And in Northern Ireland a Protestant would be risking his life if he told a Catholic that they weren’t saved.

But I always love a new version of the old “Catholics aren’t allowed to read the Bible” myth.


172 posted on 08/02/2009 1:54:01 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Marysecretary
Remember, NYer, that when you are a believer, God’s spirit witnesses to your spirit that you are His own child.

Absolutely right! God is love.

I don’t believe for one minute that God’s grace leaves you when you are a believer.

Again, you are correct.

If you fall, He will draw you back to the fold.

God's love for us NEVER ceases. The issue is the reverse. We are the ones who CAN and sometimes DO abandon God. We place our own wants above those of God - the desire for goods, fame, money - these become our false gods.

As I pointed out yesterday, scripture tells us differently. St. Paul draws our attention (i.e. focus) back to God. In Philippians 2:12 he says, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." This is not the language of self-confident assurance. Our salvation is something that remains to be worked out.

If salvation were assured, then we must believe that Hitler is in heaven.

173 posted on 08/02/2009 2:09:03 PM PDT by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
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To: NYer

Isn’t Philippians the “epistle of straw?”

Oh....

wait....


174 posted on 08/02/2009 2:16:03 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: AnAmericanMother

The Bible forbidden to laymen and placed in the Index of forbidden books by the Council of Valencia in 1229.


175 posted on 08/02/2009 2:51:06 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: SkyDancer
The Bible forbidden to laymen and placed in the Index of forbidden books by the Council of Valencia in 1229.

You are deeply misinformed.

What you describe NEVER HAPPENED.

I invite you to prove it did....or just drop it and stop embarrassing yourself.

176 posted on 08/02/2009 2:55:44 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Mr Rogers; Marysecretary
In quoting John 6 in response to Marysecretary's comment on salvation, you have ignored the most important statement our Lord made.

53
Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54
Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
55
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
57
Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.
58
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever."
John 6:53-58.

177 posted on 08/02/2009 2:57:14 PM PDT by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
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To: SkyDancer
You must have gotten that information somewhere very strange. That is an old slander that is believed to have originated with (or at least popularized by) the pamphleteer Whose Name Must Not Be Mentioned on FR.

There has never been a Council of Valencia. And there couldn't have been one there in 1229, because the Muslims had conquered the city years before and it wasn't Christian territory.

Moreover, the Index of Forbidden Books was not established until 1559.

But thanks for playing.

178 posted on 08/02/2009 2:58:48 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother
I wasn't "playing" I'm trying to figure out things. Rather than information I get something else ....it was like when I went with friends to a Catechism class for new converts. I guess it was free lollipop night or something. Anyway, afterward I chatted with the Priest/Father/Friar and just jokingly I said "I bet I would have been burned at the stake for heresy if I had lived back then." He replied with a straight face and unblinking "Young lady, you don't know right you really are."

Finally I remeber when I was about eight and was shown pictures of Adam and God, the Sistine Chapel painting and asked "How come Adam has a belly button if he was created?" - I received a slap for that one.

My imperfections are made perfection in Christ Jesus. I'm glad I'm a Messianic Jew. But thanks for letting me "play".

Kind Regards, Skydancer

179 posted on 08/02/2009 3:21:18 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: SkyDancer

You HAVE been playing, and it’s a noxious game at that.

You posted false information about the Catholic Church, repeatedly. An outsider with a legitimate curiosity could have done even the most cursory search and found it to be false.


180 posted on 08/02/2009 3:25:25 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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