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To: Zionist Conspirator
I'm willing to give this one more try.

I DO believe the creation of the universe is a miracle! NO question about it! Something was created from nothing. The creation of the universe is not open to scientific investigation, because it is an event prior to the emergence of space and time, and science can only investigate events that occur in space and time. However, once the creation occurred, events unfolded that can be studied empirically, and when investigated, they very much support, circumstantially, the reality of a Creator.

One of the best books on this subject is Stephen Barr's Modern Physics and Ancient Faith. Reviewed here.

Highly recommended.
58 posted on 07/24/2009 3:24:59 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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To: bdeaner
I DO believe the creation of the universe is a miracle! NO question about it! Something was created from nothing. The creation of the universe is not open to scientific investigation, because it is an event prior to the emergence of space and time, and science can only investigate events that occur in space and time. However, once the creation occurred, events unfolded that can be studied empirically, and when investigated, they very much support, circumstantially, the reality of a Creator.

And this is our sticking point. What makes you think that only the first instant of Creation was outside the laws of nature? Why do you assume the laws of nature, from the very first instant, were uniform and unalterable? Because you want to? Because it's what you're used to? Because that's what your more comfortable with? Because the idea that not everything comes within the purview of science hurts your feelings?

You are going to dismiss what I say, so I wonder why I take the time to say this (maybe for the benefit of other reders): the universe as it was originally created was different from the one known to science. There were three occasions when the universe and its laws "decayed" (for want of a better term): the Sin in the Garden, the Flood, and the Dispersal at Babel. I know, you regard these as fairy tales. But they are no more incredible than your chr*stian miracles.

Furthermore when Adam and Eve were created the human gestation period was very brief. The day they were created Adam and Eve had sexual intercourse twice producing Cain and a half sister (from the first act) and Abel and two sisters (from the second). The gestation period in both cases was a matter of moments. The nine month gestation period was a punishment for the sin: "I will lengthen your conception."

Now, you dismiss all of this out of hand because it isn't "fair" for G-d to operate in this way so that every second since the "big bang" is accessible to empirical science . . . right?

62 posted on 07/25/2009 8:31:07 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ('Ani hagever ra'ah `ani, beshevet `evrato!)
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