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To: ET(end tyranny)
Perhaps you need to read the Hebrew scriptures more closely. I would start with Isaiah 53...

1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


212 posted on 07/22/2009 12:23:20 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Perhaps YOU should read the Hebrew Scriptures in the context of which they were written.

Isaiah 53 JPS
Isaiah 53 KJV


53:1 'Who would have believed our report? And to whom hath the arm of YHWH been revealed?
1   Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
53:2 For he shot up right forth as a sapling, and as a root out of a dry ground; he had no form nor comeliness, that we should look upon him, nor beauty that we should delight in him.
2   For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
First problem.  The JPS renders the verse in the past tense.  The KJV uses future and present tense.
53:3 He was despised, and forsaken of men, a man of pains, and acquainted with disease, and as one from whom men hide their face: he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
3   He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
The JPS uses past tense.  The KJV uses present tense.
These verses describe the amazement of the world when they see the Jewish people redeemed. In particular, these verses describe how the nations "despised" the Jewish people and gave "no regard" for them. The reason it is written in the singular is because the Jews are regarded as one body, called "Israel." There are many instances of the Jewish people being referred to with a singular pronoun throughout the Torah.  Israel gets redeemed as shown in Zechariah 8:23.

Zechariah 8:23
Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
53:4 Surely our diseases he did bear, and our pains he carried; whereas we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
4   Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
These verses explain how nations punished Israel for their own reasons.  Throughout the last two thousand years of the Jews' exile from their homeland, a startling pattern emerges. Whenever the people of a gentile country weren't doing well, whether politically or economically, the non-Jews sought to put blame on someone for their ills. Quite often the Jews. From the perspective of the gentile kings speaking in this narrative, "he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows" refers to blaming the Jews for everything from economic failure to the Black Death. The easily-used excuse made by the Christians and the Muslims was that the Jews were rejected of G-d. This is the view of the gentile kings being expressed by the second half of the verse.
53:5 But he was wounded because of our transgressions, he was crushed because of our iniquities: the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his stripes we were healed.
5   But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Again the JPS uses the past tense, while the KJV uses past and present tense.
The healing is the end of the sickness of anti-Semitism that the nations will experience when they receive the revelation about the Jews at the End of Days.  The Redemption of Israel.  See Zechariah 8:23 above.
53:6 All we like sheep did go astray, we turned every one to his own way; and YHWH hath made to light on him the iniquity of us all.
6   All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
This verse is talking again about how the gentile nations had laid their problems on the Jewish people. i.e. inciting violence against the Jews with blood libels, ficticious literature like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, etc.
53:7 He was oppressed, though he humbled himself and opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before her shearers is dumb; yea, he opened not his mouth.
7   He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Verse seven prophesizes regarding the many hardships they would endure in their exile. A look at history will prove that these prophecies have already become true. In the 11th century CE Jews were "persecuted and afflicted" by crusaders who brutally tortured and killed Jews in the name of their lord Jesus. In this century the Nazis "led" the Jews "to the slaughter" like a "lamb that is silent before her shearers."
Can verse 7 apply to Yehoshua?  Matthew 26:39 has Yehoshua praying to YHWH to help him avoid his fate, so Yehoshua did open his mouth.  Yehoshua opens his mouth again, while on the cross in Matthew 27:46 saying "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"  So, no, it seems that verse 7 does not apply to Yehoshua.
53:8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away, and with his generation who did reason? for he was cut off out of the land of the living, for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due.
8   He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Having been "exiled" from the "Land of the Living" (the Land of Israel) it appeared to the world that the Jews would die out all together.
53:9 And they made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich his tomb; although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.'
9   And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
There are countless stories throughout history, of Jews who were given the alternative to accept Jesus or die by the edge of a sword.  Instead of profaning themselves with conversion they "submitted themselves to the grave" and died the death of a common criminal. Also "wealthy" Jews were executed while "committing no crime," only so that they could robbed of their riches.
53:10 Yet it pleased YHWH to crush him by disease; to see if his soul would offer itself in restitution, that he might see his seed, prolong his days, and that the purpose of YHWH might prosper by his hand:
10   Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
First of all, the word used for 'seed' is zera` zeh'-rah, which refers to physical children. YHWH desired to oppress him (Israel) "because they deserved to be punished for their sins. If the Jews would only "acknowledge" their "guilt" they would be able to see their "offspring
and live long days."
53:11 Of the travail of his soul he shall see to the full, even My servant, who by his knowledge did justify the Righteous One to the many, and their iniquities he did bear.
11   He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Here the narration changes from the gentile kings to YHWH Himself. From this point on, the chapter is foretelling the reward that YHWH will grant Israel for enduring the exile and never losing faith in Him  .Verse eleven talks about Israel, and how they will teach all the nations about YHWH.  
Does verse 11 speak of Yehoshua? Where in the New Testament is it told that Yehoshua's knowledge vindicated anybody?  "by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many" The writings of Paul say that it is Yehoshua's blood that justifies, not Yehoshua's knowledge! So, no, verse 11 does not seem to be about Yehoshua either.
53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion among the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the mighty; because he bared his soul unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
12   Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Verse twelve talks of how the Jews pray for the welfare of the nations they are exiled into.

214 posted on 07/22/2009 12:33:29 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Hallelujah, what a Saviour!!!


329 posted on 07/22/2009 5:47:52 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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