“I admit to that, pretty much. It’s not so much that only Scripture MATTERS, as much as it is the supreme authority on doctrinal issues, for me.”
Scripture cannot be the supreme authority for the simple reason that the Gospels were not written for many years after Christ died. Until they were written, the supreme authority on doctrinal issues was Peter and his successors. Christ set it up that way. The Scriptures didn’t exist and Christ selected oral Church teaching as His method of evangelization.
In addition, Christ set up His Church knowing full well that He was using foolish and sometimes sinful men. Peter’s weaknesses were well known to Christ. Still, he selected Peter, warts and all. He wanted frail humans, guided by the Holy Spirit, spreading the faith. He knew the Church would not always be perfect and He never promised it would be. What He promised was that His Church would last forever and that the apostolic leadership would be guided by the Spirit. He said He would not leave us orphans.
If you believe Scripture, you know that the Holy Spirit enlightened the minds of the Apostles and Mary on Pentecost. From the very first days, those enlightened minds set up the Mass and a hierarchy of Church leadership. If you believe Scripture, do a real study of what the early Church actually did. You will find it remarkably similar to the practices of the Catholic Church of today.
Finally, the Scriptures that we both hold so dear are the ones the Catholic Church’s leaders deemed divinely inspired. The formal Catholic Church selected which writings were to be included in the New Testament and which weren’t divinely inspired. How did they decide that? Well, they relied on Church tradition, oral teaching, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. So the Scripture you are relying on as a final authority was compiled and protected through the ages by the Catholic Church. How could they get that right and nothing else? Did the Holy Spirit guide them on just this issue? In the 16th century, men began altering the translations and leaving passages out as it suited them and their own agendas.
It would seem to me that if you want to use Scripture as the supreme authority on doctrinal issues, you would at least want to use the text as it was originally written, not after men have tinkered with it. Go back to the first ancient versions of Scripture and you will find something closer to the Truth. You will also find that Catholic teaching, tradition, and dogma are completely scriptural.
If you really want to know what the Church teaches, without the bias or self-preservation a minister might include in his explanations and teachings to you, I invite you to refer to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Every concept is spelled out clearly with references to the Scriptural passage that relates to it. Then cross-reference with a good Catholic Bible which will contain books and passages you may never have seen...passages that have existed in the Bible since it was written.
I will pray for you, Marie, and I hope that God blesses you always.
“Finally, the Scriptures that we both hold so dear are the ones the Catholic Church’s leaders deemed divinely inspired. The formal Catholic Church selected which writings were to be included in the New Testament and which weren’t divinely inspired.”
No. The Councils in Africa ratified what was already the common acceptance of scripture, and had been for 200-300 years. It was the local congregations that decided which writings were on par with the already existing scriptures, which were important in preventing false doctrine from the day of Jesus’s resurrection.
Even JESUS, raised from the dead, used scripture to instruct:
“24 Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see.” 25 And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself...”Did not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while he opened to us the Scriptures?”” - Luke 24
And Paul used it to evangelize the Jews:
“11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. 12 Many of them therefore believed...” - Acts 17
“Scripture cannot be the supreme authority for the simple reason that the Gospels were not written for many years after Christ died. Until they were written, the supreme authority on doctrinal issues was Peter and his successors.”
I understand that the gospels and indeed the whole NT was not written until after Christ died and rose again. Until the NT was written, indeed, all the Scriptures we had were the Old Testament and the direct teaching of the apostles. I think they were more than adequate since by definition the apostles were taught directly by Jesus, and appointed as apostles by Him. That was ‘a’ if not ‘the’ main purpose of the apostles. So I accept apostolic teaching; I just think it ceased with the death of the last apostle.
When they died I am grateful they left us the NT canon. That’s what I rely on. Not on anyone who came after any apostle.
“In addition, Christ set up His Church knowing full well that He was using foolish and sometimes sinful men. Peter’s weaknesses were well known to Christ. Still, he selected Peter, warts and all. He wanted frail humans, guided by the Holy Spirit, spreading the faith.”
Well, I’ll just say “amen” to that!
As for them setting up the Mass at Pentecost, oh no :), you know we see the Mass as rather a denial of the sufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice. In other words, on the cross, “It is finished,” I don’t think we are instructed to re-sacrifice again and again in some way. The mass is a big argument between Protestants and Roman Catholics, of course. That, the authority of the Magisterium and the Pope and so forth, and the worship/veneration whatever you may call it of the saints.
It is true we must utilize the Scriptures as originally written, and not tinkered with. In this Protestants and Roman Catholics are in the same boat. I think we agree on the 66 books and most accepted English translations of them. So yes, I think they “got that right,” as I confess the RC church has gotten several doctrines right. I just can’t accept any unBiblical doctrine they may teach. You ask what is unBiblical they have taught? The sale of indulgences is a primary example. Obviously a terrible thing to do. Perhaps they have officially renounced that; I hope so. Purgatory is another one. Limbo, which I think has been recently, I am not sure what the term would be, recalled or changed or what have you.
It was the only church at the time that accepted the canon; you may truly call it the Roman Catholic church, I may call it the Protestant, but it was everybody, before the east/west split and the Reformation. The various church councils, consisting of duly ordained men, accepted it. We both recognize that, I think. Yes, I think they got it right!
“He said He would not leave us orphans.” God is good. I know we agree upon that.