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To: thefrankbaum

The point is that traditions should not contradict Scripture. If one must choose between trusting scripture, and trusting the Pope, then one either trusts Scripture (Protestant) or the Pope (Catholic).

When Scripture says (and, BTW, these are quotes from the OT),

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”

then one can believe it, or believe the Pope’s footnote “No one EXCEPT Mary”.

If you place tradition above Scripture, that is your choice. But one shouldn’t pretend it doesn’t exist as a choice.


28 posted on 07/19/2009 3:49:17 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers
The point is that traditions should not contradict Scripture. If one must choose between trusting scripture, and trusting the Pope, then one either trusts Scripture (Protestant) or the Pope (Catholic).

That is simply not true. The Pope is bound by Scripture same as any Christian. The difference comes in the interpretation of Scripture - Catholics understand that God's teachings come in both oral and written form. Protestants tend to believe in only the latter.

If you want to cherry-pick Scripture quotes, let's look at this:
"Call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven" (Matt. 23:9)

Tell me, what do you call the gentleman who provided half of your DNA?

45 posted on 07/19/2009 6:31:31 PM PDT by thefrankbaum (Ad maiorem Dei gloriam)
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To: Mr Rogers
The point is that traditions should not contradict Scripture.

Yes, and Catholic tradition certainly does not contradict Scripture.

Romans 3, verse 10 says, "...as it is written: 'None is righteous, no, not one.'" Yet, James 5:16 says that the prayer of a righteous man availeth much. If absolutely no one is righteous, then who is James talking about? Luke chapter 1 says that Elizabeth and Zechariah were righteous before God. If absolutely no one is righteous, then how can that be? Is Scripture contradicting itself? No, the folks who interpret Romans as saying absolutely, without exception, no one is righteous, are misinterpreting that passage. They are failing to realize that the key to understanding Romans 3:10 is the phrase, "it is written."

Here in Romans, Paul is quoting from the O.T., Psalm 14 to be exact. In Psalm 14 it says, "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God. They are corrupt...there is none that does good.'" But then that same psalm goes on to talk about the "righteous." Well, if none has done good, who are these righteous the psalm is talking about? Obviously, when the psalmist says that none has done good, he is talking about the fools who say there is no God. He is not talking about absolutely everyone.

Just so Paul when he quotes from this psalm. Paul is not saying absolutely no one is righteous, if he was, then how do you explain all the Old and New Testament passages that refer to the righteous? In Romans 3:11 it says that no one seeks for God. Does that mean that absolutely no one is seeking God? No, to interpret it that way would be ludicrous!

Just so verse 23 which says that "all have sinned". Babies haven't sinned, have they? Little children haven't sinned, have they? No! This is not an absolute. There are exceptions. What about John the Baptist? Did he sin? Scripture says that he was filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mother's womb. Can someone who is filled with the Holy Spirit his entire life ever sin? It's something to think about.

So, it is perfectly legitimate to say that these passages from Romans, when interpreted in context, in no way conflict with the Church's teaching on Mary being without sin.
127 posted on 07/20/2009 8:28:44 AM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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