Posted on 07/19/2009 2:17:43 PM PDT by NYer
The scripture does not record any. It does, however, mention a penalty for laying baseless accusations.
If it were possible for a human to live a sinless life, there would have been no reason for our Lord to have suffered and die on the cross.
That doesn't follow. If there had been one sinner, and the rest were righteous, the salvation of that single sinner would have been sufficient for Jesus to die for him alone (see the discourse on the one lost sheep in the Gospel).
I don't know about that. I would argue he treated the Jews differently than he treated other peoples (treating his creation differently), or even Christ chose twelve out of many disciples (making some work harder than others).
There are well known theologians who are not believers. They study theology because they are fascinated by it. In fact, some claim they became non-believers through it.
I suppose I may have been defining terms a bit differently, but even fascination with Scripture is a faith in the idea of God, which is a very immature form of faith in Him.
Theology is a study of God (Greek theos + logia), a study of what people wrote about God through their faith in him. Some people may find theological arguments compelling because they express their beliefs in greater detail and in a more scholarly, authoritative way, thereby leading to a sense of "growing" in knowledge of God.
Agreed.
Why can both not be 'pleasing' to God, just as there may be different innumerable paths towards faith?
Agreed. If you'll excuse the question, where are we disagreeing? I have enjoyed this conversation, but I'm afraid I don't see any points of dispute anymore!
That reply is not in sync with the basic Biblical premises of election, predestination, nor the kinsman redeemer.
A greater understanding of the Bible would be helpful in understanding the solid inviolate premise of the total depravity of man (Mary is included)
You are probably right. I think it is fair to say that most theologians were believers at the beginning of their studies, probably hoping to find more reasons to believe.
But for some, theology was a journey away from God for many reasons (Ehrhart, Pagels, etc). Others remained faithful but in quite an unorthodox way.
If you'll excuse the question, where are we disagreeing?
On pretty much everything. :)
I have enjoyed this conversation, but I'm afraid I don't see any points of dispute anymore!
I can see why. But that's because so far I have been stating the "official truth" rather than asking questions.
You inferred that since the Angel says “Hail Mary full of grace,” that somehow that indicates that Scripture is telling us she is sinless. I replied with the definition of “grace” to clarify the point that in no way does “grace” or being “full of grace” imply that she is sinless. The “simple answer” is that grace is what sinners need and what God has extended to us. Mary was blessed, Mary was “full of grace,” but only Jesus Christ was without sin.
This is a theological fantasy invented by Luther, no such thing is actually in the Bible.
In regards to: BFHU> “Why did Mary offer a sin offering?” (July 19, 2009) It is a good article you posted, well written.
Also: the best explanation I have heard about ‘Mary being Immaculate’ was on the Catholic Answers radio show. A man who is not a Priest said something like this:
God is always testing us.
You are walking along a path with >your mother & you spot a mud-puddle. >Knowing your own mother would fall into the mud-puddle, do you:
1. Let her fall into the mud-puddle & >then save her by pulling her out of the puddle, or
2. Do you reach out & save your mother >before she falls into the mud-puddle?
We know that Jesus Christ kept the Commandments perfectly & honored both His Father & his >mother. Jesus Christ “redeemed Mary before she was conceived” & saved her >before falling into the mud-puddle of >sin.
Please tell God & your >own mother what you would do for your mother.
Mary is >our Mother too through Jesus Christ!
____
I like that example. I’m from the far-west. But that example sounds like a New Yawker,> ‘You tell us! What would you do?’
Thank you for the post and ping!
Emphasis added.
Nice to see this thread 'resurrected'. "all have sinned " only means that all are subject to original sin. The phrase also refers only to those able to commit sin. This is not everyone. For example, infants, the retarded, and the senile cannot sin. Jesus must be an exception to this rule. This means that Mary can be an exception as well. Note that the Greek word for all is "pantes."
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