Posted on 07/17/2009 5:37:12 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
Well I must say, I had a great time reading the comments, critiques and insults that came in after my last post with its modest attempt to define "atheism". In particular, many self-described atheists took umbrage to my claim that atheism is denial of the proposition that God exists. (Apparently my smarmy attitude was also ripe for verbal assault.)
One of my most spirited opponents drew comparisons between belief in God and unicorns as he/she asked: "do you believe in unicorns? Can you disprove the existence of unicorns?" The idea, presumably, is that belief in unicorns and God are equivalent. Thus, if belief in unicorns is irrational then so is belief in God (bad news for the theist). And if disbelief in unicorns is the rational position for the average person on the street then so is disbelief in God (good news for the atheist).
This is an important comparison to consider, but in doing so I am going to switch from unicorns to Santa Claus since the latter (being a concrete individual rather than a type of thing) is a closer parallel to God. So the question: is belief in Santa Claus like belief in God?
First, let's begin to address the question in the manner of Thomas Aquinas, by giving our opponent as fair a shake as possible:
So here we go. Picture yourself a manager at Walmart interviewing a potential employee to work in the warehouse. "Alfred" seems to be a well-adjusted intelligent twenty-five year old who has solid work experience and references, Thus you are inclined to hire him. Then you notice his Rolex watch and you offer a compliment. "Nice watch Alfred."
"Thanks," he replies, "Santa gave it to me." You pause, wait for the punchline, and then slowly, with growing trepidation, you realize that he is deathly serious.
You swallow nervously as Alfred watches you intently. "Santa?" you ask in a futile attempt to sound nonchalant. A bead of sweat rolls down your brow.
"Yes," Alfred replies. "I was very good last year. Santa loves me, and he watches everything we do. So you can trust me Mr. Manager."
Okay, would you hire Alfred even after he confessed belief in Santa Claus? At the very least wouldn't you be at least be less inclined to hire him in light of that belief? You might concede Alfred's point that believing Santa is watching over him will make him more likely to be honest and hard working. But would that potential positive byproduct of his belief be sufficient to allay your concerns?
With that in mind, let's replay the last exchange:
"Nice watch Alfred."
"Thanks. The Lord provided it as an answer to prayer."
Many people would view the invocation of God as much less threatening or epistemologically questionable than invocation of Santa Claus. Indeed, many would be positively encouraged to hear the invocation of God. But if it appears irrational to ascribe the acquisition of the watch to Santa Claus, why is it not equally irrational to ascribe it to God? In short, what makes the Christian any more rational than Alfred?
Go back to your top, silly little man.
Name calling, eh?
The heavens declare the glory of God. The Bible declares Who He is.
From nature alone, whether you are looking with the naked eye, a telescope, a microscope, or the naturalist’s notebook, should tell the observer that there is a supreme intellect behind it all. You see design. Rocks can’t turn into people, I don’t care how long you give it to occur.
The Bible tells us that God cares about us, that He wants to communicate with us, that He wants to have a relationship with us, that He wants to redeem us. Furthermore, the Bible proclaims projections about the future. Dozens of those predictions were fulfilled to the letter in the first Advent, the appearance of God in the flesh, the Lord Jesus Christ. Gainsay it if you wish, pooh-pooh it if you wish, pish-tosh it if you wish, harrumph about it with other atheists all you wish; but it happened; and many good people who witnessed it were martyred with the truth of it still on their lips.
Furthermore, the same Bible that reveals Who God is also predicted the scattering and regathering of a people, the Jews, over a period of some 2600-3300 years. And it happened — in a day — you cannot make this stuff up; nor can you say it and bring it to pass. It is unprecedented and it is incontrovertible.
None of this has anything whatsoever to do with unicorns or Santa Claus or spaghetti monsters or anything of the kind.
Do the research with an open mind, and I guarantee — if you are a true seeker, you will find.
Are Christian websites being overtaken by conservatives or does it only happen the other way around?
When it comes to these things, how can anyone tell if someone really believes something, or they just say they believe?
Is it possible to make yourself truly believe something that is considered by most, to be unbelievable?
The bible doesn’t claim that the rational man believes in God. In fact the opposite is true. The rational man lacks the spirit and without the Spirit, that man is blind. In your example, the man with the watch can “see” more than the manager. The manager’s blindness to his true surroundings does not make the existence of God false. It simply means the manager is not equipped to see God’s hand in the world.
1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
One truth seeker discovers Vishnu, another finds Jehovah, and a third person believes in Allah, which religion is the true one?
A beautiful sunset is nothing but light shining through atmospheric dust.
Gal 5:22
I recommend the One I mentioned in my post. None of the others even remotely qualify.
This is probably the number one problem with the conservative movement. My Jewish and Black friends are more concerned about the 'Christians' who are in charge of the conservative movement than they are of the Libs.
Here’s my problem. A person gets in a serious car wreck. She barely escapes with her life. But she thanks God that she lived and only has a broken back. Excuse me, serious question here. If God was looking out for her why did he let her get in a car wreck at all? It makes no sense.
Oh people might say, God let you be in the wreck so you can learn something from it. Really? Would you let your child get 3rd degree burns all over his body, so he learn something from it? No of course not!!
I don’t think anyone really knows one thing about God or God’s motives. He always seems far less than Godlike and loving than God would really be, if there is a God.
“But Faith is only as good as the OBJECT of your faith. Yes, faith is the basis of Christianity, but it has to be faith based on good evidence and reason, not just faith alone.”
No it doesn’t have to be based on “good evidence” and “reason.” Paul said it real well when he said what he preached was foolishness to the Greeks. And it was foolish to the Greeks. Some guy gets executed, you think he’s come back to life and if you believe in him you will live forever. Yes, the Greeks of that day were ROTFLTAO.
Yet, Paul and millions of other people believe. Instead of Santa, think of “love.” Could you prove that “love” exists? Would not the easier argument be that sexual love is based on hormones, and that family love is based on a genetic tilt in favor of preserving your gene pool.
And, you will never really know if there is such a thing as “love”, until and unless it happens to you. So, have you ever felt that feeling? If so, and I am assuming you are a male, is there really any evidence that one female is somehow special when compared to all the other females in existence?
Probably not the kind of evidence you are seeking here, for a belief in Jesus, or God. But, in your own heart, you know what you know. If you have been in love, you know it is something different, and it fills you up.
Try to explain it to me with “evidence” and “reason.” You can’t. I can relate only if I have felt love.
And if you have never felt love, and do not distinguish it from some really hot sex, is your mind closed to the possibility that such a thing exists? If it is, you may never find it. If you are open to the possibility, you may.
parsy.
The one that is unique. There is only one that doesn't require me to be a good person and puts the burden of saving me on God and not on me.
I'm not talking about a movement, I'm talking about a website.
‘But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness’, is that an answer? Doesn’t it require a certain belief in the bible?
I agree.
well here’s my short answer: it is unequally rational - Santa is a cultural icon and God is the object and subject of 3 major religious belief systems(Christianity,Judaism and Islam) with milliions of believers throughout the world.
Personally, i think the posting is immature and your questions somehow weirdly juvenile .
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