Replies

"But we still have to do some work to get sanctified, so that we can be in the presence of our Holy Holy Holy Lord. "

Without realizing it, this position nicely states the heresy of works' salvation. We are not saved by our works, lest any man should boast.

Rewards in heaven shall be given in accordance with our works performed through faith in Him, but salvation is from God alone, by His grace. He provides.

In all fairness, the language used by some Catholics and some Protestants is not always referencing the same original meaning. Protestants recognize there is a split second point of time, from which a man may be regenerated in his human spirit, upon simple faith alone in Christ alone. This is not to diminish the role of culture or tradition or other religious aspects of the Church, but rather emphasizes the glory of the sole work of God in our salvation.

The Cross was the moment of Judgment of all mankinds' sins, past, present, and future, all imputed, charged to the account of our Lord Christ Jesus.

When God the Father judged all sin in Him, His perfect justice had been propitiated and satisfied by His perfect righteousness.

This did not immediately result in forgiveness of sin in each sinner, but it did redeem all sin from the Divine perspective.

This frees the volition of God (His Sovereignty) to be able to freely give eternal life to the sinner on the basis of what He finds righteous as a free gift of grace.

Once a sinner has a smigeon more faith than no faith whatsoever in our Lord Jesus Christ, God is free to positionally sanctify the sinner as a believer.

Positional sanctification is a judicial term known by every lawyer. It doesn't matter if a client is guilty or not, if the court finds you positionally sanctified, in the eyes of the law one is not guilty. This is the state of the sinner in faith in Christ.

That provides salvation from eternal damnation.

Once saved, God the Holy Spirit indwells the believer and gives the believer a regenerated human spirit, which provides the temple for the indwelling of Christ in us.

Sanctification, or a setting apartness, is a continuing process, a continuing work of God the Holy Spirit, which only advances as we remain in fellowship with Him.

No question in my mind, soteriology is the trickiest business when doing comparative theology between Catholicism and various forms of Protestant theology. The differences between the the two views are very typically straw man arguments of the other from both sides, and so a careful, responsible ecumenical discussion of soteriology requires at least an attempt to look at both sides objectively. The differences are subtle, yet have wide-reaching implications.

Justification, according to Catholicism, is a true eradication of sin, a supernatural infusion of grace, and a renewal of the inner man. The Catholic Church holds that true faith in Jesus Christ is not saving faith unless it bears fruit in good works, without which spiritual growth is impossible. In this way, good works are necessary for salvation, and sanctification is not separated from justification. Rather, the two are intrinsically intertwined.

Most Protestants will say a man who makes a profession of faith in Christ but doesn't produce any evidence of the inner workings of the Holy Spirit in his life is probably not born again. We shall know them by their fruits.

This is consistent with Catholic soteriology. The Catholics would elaborate: There are inner changes in the person, so that sanctification is a process of being made actually holy, not merely legally declared so. This process begins at baptism, is facilitated by means of prayer, acts of charity and the aid of sacraments, and is consummated upon entrance to heaven and union with God.

Catholics and Protestants generally agree that we are saved by grace alone. The quesiton is not a matter of choosing between grace and works. Rather, the question is a matter of choosing between faith alone or faith AND works. We agree on grace; we disagree on the role of works in justification and sanctification.

Grace is defined in Catholicism as the gratuitous benevolence shown by God toward the human race, and it is an absolutely unmerited, free gift of God, made possible through our Redeemer Jesus Christ and his atoning death on the Cross for us. When, therefore, Catholics speak of merit on the part of man, it must be understood in a secondary, derivative sense.

St. Augustine wrote, "The Lord made Himself a debtor not by receiving something, but by promising something. One does not say to Him "Pay for what You received," but, "Pay what You promised."

Likewise, the Second Council of Orange in 529 AD declared, "Whatever good works we do are deserving of reward, not through any merit anterior to grace; their performance, rather, is due to a prior gift of grace to which we have no claim."

Catholicism holds that a person cannot save himself by his own self-originated works. On this particular matter there is no difference whatsoever between Catholic and Protestant. The doctrine of "works-salvation," often wrongly attributed to Catholicism, is a heresy known as Pelagianism, which was in fact roundly condemned by St. Augustine (354-430), the above-mentioned Council in 529, and the Council of Trent (Canon I on Justification, January 13, 1547). When applied to Catholic soteriology, it is actually a straw man.

Where Catholic soteriology differs from some Protestant views is the Catholic rejects a view of justification in which there is an external, or forensic justification where righteousness is merely declared, or imputed by God to the sinner, who remains outwardly unchanged, at least in the beginning--which seems to imply the doctrine of total depravity. Maybe you can clarify your position here a bit more.

I think the key point here, for Catholics, is that man always retains at least a small measure of free will to choose God and the good. This enables him--by the necessary assistance of God's enabling and proceeding grace at every turn--to cooperate with god as He sanctifies and saves. In Catholic theology, whoever rejects God and goes to hell does so of his own volition and free choice, whereas in Calvinist Protestant "Reformational" doctrine, God predestines people to hell from eternity without (ultimately) their own choice being a factor at all--a doctrine known as double predestination.

Could you clarify your position on these key issues?

I hope I have made clear that Catholics do not, and I have not, endorsed a "works-salvation" heresy. The fact is that Scripture does not support a view of salvation in which instant salvation is assured. Salvation is begun with justification and justification continues through the grace of God with a process of sanctification. This is supported by a variety of passages from the Bible, including:

1 Corinthians 9:27
but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

1 Corinthians 10:12
Therefore let any one who things that he stands take heed lest he fall.

Galatians 5:1,4
stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery...You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

Philippians 3:11-14
that if possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already botained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Chirst JEsus has made me his own. Brehtren, I do not consider that I have made it my own...I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faiht by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.

1 Timothy 5:15
For some have already strayed after Satan.

Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day...that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we share in Christ, if only we hold our first confidence firm to the end.

All of these passages are consistent with the Catholic soteriology discussed in the above article, in which salvation is viewed as a process that can at any time be lost, and therefore requires viglilance -- a working out of justification and sanctification with "fear and trembling," as another verse puts it.

None of us are capable of this process of sanctification, however. It becomes possible only through the grace of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God which is in me.

Also see 1 Corinthians 15:58, Galatians 5:6,6:7-9, and 1 Corinthians 3:8-9.

Yes, Catholics often know their Bible too. ;)

God bless.