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To: bdeaner; Marysecretary

“Just reading the words here, it seems pretty simple and straightforward that works are necessary for salvation, and not just faith.”

What is necessary for salvation is that we be born again.

John 3: “3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

What happens when we are born again?

Ephesians 2: “8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

When we are born again, we are born to a new life of imitating Christ.

Romans 6: “1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life...

9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.”

So there is no conflict between faith and good works. Salvation involves our dying with Christ, and becoming a new creation, “..created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

The only conflict in the clear meaning of scripture is when someone reads one or two verses, out of context, and then tries to apply just those verses.

And the correct response to someone who claims faith frees him from doing good is found, not in the Catholic Catechism, or in the teachings of a Pope, but in the clear teaching provided for us in the Bible.

As it was summarized in the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith:

“1.7 Not all things in Scripture are equally plain in themselves, nor equally clear to everyone. Yet those things that are essential to be known, believed and obeyed for salvation are so clearly set forth and explained in one place of Scripture or another, that not only the educated but also the uneducated may attain a satisfactory understanding of them by using ordinary means.”


561 posted on 06/29/2009 7:11:24 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers
What is necessary for salvation is that we be born again.

In John 3:3-6, Christ says it is necessary, but He does not say it is sufficient.

563 posted on 06/29/2009 7:14:18 AM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Mr Rogers

Amen, Mr. Rogers, and thanks.


578 posted on 06/29/2009 8:20:44 AM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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To: Mr Rogers; bdeaner; Marysecretary
As it was summarized in the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith:

“1.7 Not all things in Scripture are equally plain in themselves, nor equally clear to everyone. Yet those things that are essential to be known, believed and obeyed for salvation are so clearly set forth and explained in one place of Scripture or another, that not only the educated but also the uneducated may attain a satisfactory understanding of them by using ordinary means.”

Beautiful!

In the end it comes down to who you want to trust as the Final Authority, Scripture or a church.

586 posted on 06/29/2009 10:31:29 AM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: Mr Rogers
To be born again through baptism is to be freed of original sin and born into the Church that is Christ's body. This is necessary but not sufficient for salvation.

In John 3, Christ tells us that we need to be baptized with water to be born again into the Spirit, but He does not say this is sufficient for salvation. It's necessary, but not sufficient.

Matthew 5:20
For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.


In Matthew 25:31-46, Christ again--talking about the separation of sheep and goats--makes the words of faith the central criterion of judgment.

In Luke 18:18-25, the rich young ruler asks Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life, and Jesus asks if he has kept the commandments. Upon finding out that he has, He commands him to sell all his possessions and give the money to the poor (18:22). Jesus was quite an incompetent missionary, according to the pragmatic evangelistic techniques and criteria for "success" which prevail among many of today's evangelicals.

Nothing whatsoever is spoken about faith alone in any of these passages, as would be rightfully expected if Luther were correct about the nature of saving faith. All Christians agree that a person living unrighteously is in great danger. Catholics say that such a one has lost the state of grace through mortal sin, whereas most evangelicals contend that they were likely never saved at all. In any event, the actual outcome is the same in both cases if the sinning persists: hellfire.
1,546 posted on 07/02/2009 4:13:32 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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