The question is; how do you understand anything with logic???
Logic is nothing more than a guess...Logic is for people who don't know the answer to the question...
And what makes one person's logic superior to the person whose logic disagrees with his logic??? The answer of course is in the final equation...If the logic can prove itself in the end...
And when the logical episode is over with, knowledge is gained, experience is gained, and from that point on, logic falls to the bottom of the list...Logic never supercedes knowledge and experience...
I know of no one who has a good sense of logic in every area...Some are good with mechanics, some with math...Some with electronics...Logic however, does not apply to the scriptures...The only biblical logic is called wisdom...And the only Godly wisdom we get comes from God...According to God...
Try this one out...Many of the scriptures that Protestants relate to, to prove their position, are called a metaphor by you guys...That means it doesn't mean what it says...It means something else...But yet, in most cases, you have no clue as to what the metaphor means...That means that God wrote a lot of scripture that is meaningless and not applicable to anything...So where's the logic in that???
You pointed to some verses, Matt. 25 and more that show works are definitely required for salvation...Excellent...I agree with you 100%
But then we get to Romans, Galatians, Ephesians where it's is conclusive that works of any kind are forbidden for salvation...Of course you guys deny this to keep in line with your believing only what Jesus said...Regardless, the scriptures tell us that any kind of works are counted as a debt...
Logic would seem to tell anyone that there's a contradiction there...
And then James tells us that we are justified by works when Roman tells us absolutely no way...
Would seem even a minute amount of logic would tell someone there's a problem there...
But nope, one of 'em's got to be a metaphor...Don't know what it means but what ever it means, it's not what it says...
So I don't buy into man's logic that you claim is a gift from God...Not when your logic seems to be so, illogical...
You can know the words but not understand them unless they are in a logical, coherent order. Logic tells us that we don't have to believe that a circle has no corners. We know it doesn't, and we know why it doesn't. Logic relates things as they are in the real world. The world described in the Bible is not logical and is not the way our world is. That makes the Bible incomprehensible. It's equivalent to asking someone to believe, contrary to reason, that a circle has corners.
Logic is nothing more than a guess...Logic is for people who don't know the answer to the question...
I would call that a sweeping generalization. It is not a guess that the shortest distance between any two points is a straight line; it is not a guess that the sum of all angles in any triangle is known; it is not a guess that six pounds will outweigh three pounds, etc.
And what makes one person's logic superior to the person whose logic disagrees with his logic??? The answer of course is in the final equation...If the logic can prove itself in the end...
People do not disagree on logic. They disagree when logic is applied subjectively to explain, defend and claim perception, illusions and delusions as something factual. No one will disagree with the logic that touching a hot stove with a bare hand, or jumping off a 10th floor is injurious. Applying logic to subjective perceptions is like trying to eat your chicken broth with a fork. Wrong utensil! Logic tells us it won't work and to use a spoon.
Likewise, every time you try to explain real-world phenomena through the Bible it leads to senseless conclusions because a belief is not knowledge.
Logic however, does not apply to the scriptures...The only biblical logic is called wisdom...And the only Godly wisdom we get comes from God...According to God...
That's a very logical conclusion, I must admit, except then you jump to a conclusion that biblical wisdom is Godly and therefore from God! There goes the logic! How do you know that? Because someone wrote it? That simply doesn't follow.
That means that God wrote a lot of scripture that is meaningless and not applicable to anything...So where's the logic in that???
Where is the logic that God wrote the scripture?
But then we get to Romans, Galatians, Ephesians where it's is conclusive that works of any kind are forbidden for salvation...Of course you guys deny this to keep in line with your believing only what Jesus said...Regardless, the scriptures tell us that any kind of works are counted as a debt...
First, to you the words of Paul are equal or higher than what Jesus is quoted as saying. This is because Paul arrogates himself to the role of being a Christ's mouthpiece, teaching what Christ in life (in the Gospels) never taught.
Paul cleverly covers all the bases when he said that scripture is God-breathed (something no one else says in the Bible), even if he didn't (cleverly) define what constitutes scriptures.
These two claims of Paul are clever but they do not prove, logically, that what he says is true. He never knew Jesus personally and he knew that, in order for his words to carry any weight he had to have some kind of divine coverage. So, if he taught what appeared as divergent from what those who knew Jesus taught, he could always fall back on this arrogated authority, i.e. that Christ speaks through him.
So, the Church puts greater emphasis on the words of Christ then on the words of Paul, standing when the Gospels are read by a priest, and sitting when the Epistles are read by a lay person. Even if we assume that all scriptures are God-breathed, he didn't say they are of equal importance. Judaism, Paul's own Pharisaical Judaism, considers the Books of Moses higher than the rest of the Tanakh (Jewish Bible).
Who is Paul to overrule Jesus? In Chapter 25 of Matthew, Jesus is quoted as saying whom he will save and whom he will not, all based on works. The Paul comes along and says in effect "this is wrong; works are debt; only faith saves you." John tried to mend some of these two different schools of thought, having written his book at the end of the apostolic era, when Judaism and Christianity even officially parted ways, and when Christianity badly needed divine coverage now that they became a sect without one. John knew that Paul's legacy carried weight and was important for the Church, just as he knew that Christ had to be a lot more divine than he is in either of the previous three Gospels or Paul's Epistles.
So I don't buy into man's logic that you claim is a gift from God...Not when your logic seems to be so, illogical
I would never claim that logic is a gift from God. And if I did, I would have no way of knowing that it is. The only thing that's illogical is the Bible, with its talking donkeys, voices from heaven, pillars of fire, burning bushes that talk, talking serpents, a man living for three days in a belly of a large fish, people being raised from the dead, etc. because these things simply don't happen, and never did because no one else by the biblical authors recorded them. So, if you reject something because it is not logical, the Bible is a good start.