[bdeaner]

What the term 'Church' means in Vatican II is completely insignificant and irrelevant...

LOL. I think you missed the context of the discussion, Iscool. The meaning of "The Church" for Vatican II IS unquestionably relevant if the subject under discussion is the meaning of the "Church" for Catholics! The Vatican II council spent considerable energy clarifying the meaning of the Church.

It's simply not possible to mount a valid criticism of the Catholic doctrine on the Church without an understanding of the meaning of "Church" developed by Vatican II. On this thread, you Protestants have offered nothing more than straw man arguments of Church doctrine. So, I am telling you what in fact the Catholic Church professes, so that at least your criticisms are based on actual Church doctrine rather than straw men of your own wild imaginations. I really hope for your sake that you are not content to mount straw man arguments, because unless you are willing to address Church doctrine on its own terms, and criticize it from within its own logic using Scripture and reason, I don't think you are going to be persuading anyone to join you in your position. And even if you did, you'd just end up persuading them to become Catholic, because that's what you would end up becoming, if you followed the Truth of the Lord's Word.

You may as well be telling a commercial fisherman how to rig his nets; or telling Tiger Woods that he should be driving with his sand wedge...

!!!!! HAHAHAHA!!!! Ok, ok. So you're telling me that I should dispense with 2000 years of Church teachings, and the teachings of the early Church fathers who were contemporaries of the Apostles, and the work of many theologians, and the infallible teachings of the Magesterium --- just throw it all in the trash -- and instead listen to the "Tiger Woods" of Biblical hermeneutics, the gransmaster flash of Bible study, Iscool, some dude who hangs around on Free Republic bashing Catholics? Because after all, it's Iscool who canonized the Scripture and was promised by Christ to be the pillar and foundation of all Truth so that hell would not prevail against it? Right. Gee, how could I have missed your genius for so long, Iscool? You are actually the infallible one and us Catholics and the Pope really have no idea what we're talking about. Thanks for straightening us out. /sarc

Unbelievable.

[Iscool]

Right. Gee, how could I have missed your genius for so long, Iscool? You are actually the infallible one and us Catholics and the Pope really have no idea what we're talking about. Thanks for straightening us out. /sarc

Nope...The scripture, the word of God is the infallible one...And when you guys misquote scripture to defend your position, I'm am for closer to the infallible one than you are...

was promised by Christ to be the pillar and foundation of all Truth so that hell would not prevail against it?

Jesus did not say that Hell would not prevail against the church...Jesus said the GATES of Hell...And you guys change the word GATES to POWER...You don't even know what the verse means so you change it and create a new definition for it...

So you're telling me that I should dispense with 2000 years of ( Catholic) Church teachings, and the teachings of the early (Catholic) Church fathers who (who make the claim they) were contemporaries of the Apostles, and the work of many (Catholic) theologians, and (our claim of ) infallible teachings of the Magesterium --- just throw it all in the trash

You forgot a lot of things in your rant...I made it a little more readable...