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To: delacoert

The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration (4th Edition)

"This thoroughly revised edition of Bruce M. Metzger's classic work is the most up-to-date manual available for the textual criticism of the New Testament. The Text of the New Testament, Fourth Edition, has been invigorated by the addition of Bart D. Ehrman--author of numerous best-selling books on the New Testament--as a coauthor. This revision brings the discussion of such important matters as the early Greek manuscripts and methods of textual criticism up to date, integrating recent research findings and approaches into the body of the text (as opposed to previous revisions, which compiled new material and notes into appendices). The authors also examine new areas of interest, including the use of computers in the collection and evaluation of manuscript evidence and the effects that social and ideological influences had upon the work of scribes. The standard text for courses in biblical studies and the history of Christianity since its first publication in 1964, The Text of the New Testament is poised to become a definitive resource for a whole new generation of students."

Although delacoert refuses to admit it, I think she is a believer in the traditions of the "infallability" and "inerrancy" of the Bible, and anyone who doesn't agree is disparaging the Bible. Several hundred years of modern textual criticism of the Greek New Testament have demonstrated thousands of variants in the various manuscripts. Apparently, mentioning those facts is disparaging the Bible in delacoert's eyes.

13 posted on 06/23/2009 4:09:29 PM PDT by TheDon
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To: TheDon; delacoert
Metzger

Remarkable, just as the title of the thread indicates, mormons will quick attempt to denegrate the bible in order to protect its prophet and the bom. Do you even have a clue to what Metzger is talking about, or are you parroting the talking points put out by FAIR, et al without studying the transmission of the bible?

Here is how mormon history documents the way Smith translated the bom

We have what Smith claimed was the handwritten document from Abraham - how well was his translation of Egyptian? Take Smith's translation of Facimile 3 for example

Joseph's Interpretation of Facsimile 3
Fig. 1. Abraham sitting upon Pharaoh's throne, by the politeness of the king, with a crown upon his head, representing the Priesthood, as emblematical of the grand Presidency in Heaven; with the scepter of justice and judgment in his hand.
Fig. 2. King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head.
Fig. 3. Signifies Abraham in Egypt as given also in Figure 10 of Facsimile No. 1.
Fig. 4. Prince of Pharaoh, King of Egypt, as written above the hand.
Fig. 5. Shulem, one of the king's principal waiters, as represented by the characters above his hand.
Fig. 6. Olimlah, a slave belonging to the prince.
Abraham is reasoning upon the principles of Astronomy, in the king's court.

Egyptologist's Interpretation of Facsimile 3
Facsimile No. 3 is a depiction of a common funerary scene.
Egyptologist Klaus Baer provides this information about facsimile No. 3 in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1968, pp. 126-127:
Facsimile No. 3 shows a man (5) his hand raised in adoration and a cone of perfumed grease and a lotus flower on his head (ancient Egyptian festival attire), being introduced by Maat (4), the goddess of justice, and Anubis (6), the guide of the dead, into the presence of Osiris (1), enthroned as king of the Netherworld. Behind Osiris stands Isis (2), and in front of him is an offering-stand (3) with a jug and some flowers on it. Over the whole scene is a canopy with stars painted on it to represent the sky.

The scene comes from a mortuary papyrus and is similar to, but not identical with the scenes showing judgement of the deceased before Osiris such as P. JS III. It is a summary in one illustration of what the Breathing Permit promised: The deceased, after successfully undergoing judgement is welcomed into the presence of Osiris.

The texts, poorly copied as they are, carry us one step further. As far as it can be made out, the line of hieroglyphics below the scene reads.

'O Gods of ..., gods of Caverns, gods of the south, north, west, and east, grant well-being to Osiris Hor, justified, ...'

The characters above and to the left of the man are probably to be read: 'Osiris Hor, justified forever.' Even though Hor is a relatively common name in Greco-Roman Egypt, this does suggest 'Facsimile No. 3' reproduces part of the same manuscript that 'Facsimile No. 2' does. Hor's copy of the Breathing Permit would then have had two vignettes, one at the beginning and another ('Facsimile No. 3) at the end, an arrangement that is found in other copies of the same text."

Shall we also consider the Kinderhook plates translation or the Greek Psalter? No, you post shows that when the backs go against the wall, the mormons will attack the bible.

31 posted on 06/23/2009 9:10:22 PM PDT by Godzilla (TEA: Taxed Enough Already)
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To: TheDon
Several hundred years of modern textual criticism of the Greek New Testament have demonstrated thousands of variants in the various manuscripts.

But those variants exist in the Alexandrian manuscripts as the differ from the Byzantine manuscripts that underly the KJV which Mormons ascribe to. Incidentally those Alexandrian manuscripts come from the same place as "Reformed Egyptian" --

42 posted on 06/24/2009 6:23:42 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: TheDon

Nothing stated to prove your assertion. Fact is there is a difference between being translationally accurate and obliterating the book altogether. Just where did J. Smith offer ANY textual analysis of the NT? Yeah, that’s what I thought. He stole a manuscript written by another man, a preacher and scholar at that. Smith was uneducated and a scam artist ( sorry facts are a hard thing). Be a Mormon if you wish but please do not try and suggest the bOM is the same thing as the scripture of those who follow the Messiah


54 posted on 06/24/2009 8:49:13 AM PDT by the long march
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