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To: Quix

>> Were you there? <<

The actual quote is this:

:: Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not retract anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. May God help me. Amen. ::

At some point, decades later, someone seemed to have decided that “Here I stand, I can do no other” was a pithy summation, and soon it spread he had said it. Later hagiographies began inserting it between “...nor right to go against conscience” and “May God help me.”

Do we know for certain he did NOT say it? No. But why would the early writings, including from Lutheran sources, have edited OUT such a pithy “soundbite.” More likely, it emerged from verbal retelling of what he said.


103 posted on 06/21/2009 7:14:43 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

Plausible, to me.

I just think it’s at least a bit risky, as a general rule, to be 100% emphatic about things long ago unless they are part of God’s Word.


104 posted on 06/21/2009 7:28:43 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: dangus; Quix

:: Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not retract anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. May God help me. Amen. ::

The great problem with that quote, of course, is that Luther might as well have added: “And if scripture disagrees with me, than it must not be truly scripture, for my own rash judgments and prejudices are the very word of God.” Because the Catholic Church’s response to his assertions was precisely to quote scripture to him. And his counter-response was to declare that the 14 books cited were later inventions. And, yes, 9 of those books are in the Protestant canon today.


109 posted on 06/21/2009 7:43:34 AM PDT by dangus
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