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To: blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; stfassisi; HarleyD; Frumanchu; Dutchboy88; suzyjaruki; Petronski; ...
The problem you're encountering is that you bring your own metaphors and preconceived notions into your study of the scriptures.

Take Prov. 20:24, “Man’s goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?”

As you have no clue to what it means you then pounce on it as reinforcing and consistent with your predetermined ideas.

What does Christ have to say?

At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
He called a little child and had him stand among them.

And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 18:1-4

Why did he use the metaphor of a child? If children are born sinful little creatures (I'll never forget the day I heard Jill Briscoe use the pedophile’s argument that children are guilty (sick)), why would our Lord and Savior pick a child as an example of how to enter into the kingdom of Heaven? What do children uniquely have that adults do not?

510 posted on 06/22/2009 11:40:05 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
As you have no clue to what it means you then pounce on it as reinforcing and consistent with your predetermined ideas.

Reading the mind of another Freeper is a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

511 posted on 06/22/2009 11:45:19 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: 1010RD; Dr. Eckleburg

When you are interested in a serious discussion about the Scriptures, let us know...


515 posted on 06/22/2009 12:03:10 PM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: 1010RD
Why did he use the metaphor of a child? If children are born sinful little creatures (I'll never forget the day I heard Jill Briscoe use the pedophile’s argument that children are guilty (sick)), why would our Lord and Savior pick a child as an example of how to enter into the kingdom of Heaven? What do children uniquely have that adults do not?

Children generally have several things that adults generally do not. One of them being a propensity for trust that is not tempered by years of experience of the treachery of the world.

The problem we're going to have here is that you probably differ from my insofar as what we believe the characteristic is that Jesus is putting forth, and this argument will ultimately boil down to a matter of authority, and thus will begin the feedback loop we always encounter.

518 posted on 06/22/2009 12:11:13 PM PDT by Frumanchu (God's justice does not demand second chances)
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To: 1010RD; Dr. Eckleburg; stfassisi; HarleyD; Frumanchu; Dutchboy88; suzyjaruki

“The problem you’re encountering is that you bring your own metaphors and preconceived notions into your study of the scriptures.....As you have no clue to what it means you then pounce on it as reinforcing and consistent with your predetermined ideas.”

But I have no problem in understanding that what the writer is dealing with in (Prov. 20:24), “Man’s goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?” is the sovereignty of God. That’s why the verse was included with others dealing with God’s sovereignty. I did notice that you did not give your interpretation of the verse.

“What does Christ have to say?”

Those verses in “Matthew 18:1-4” have nothing to do with the sovereignty of God nor with innocency or sinlessness. They have to do with humble serving. Parallel scriptures are found in Mark 9:33-37 and Luke 9:46-48.

Jesus had previously singled out Peter, James, and John, as in Matthew 17:1, for special honor. The disciples were wondering what would the role of each of the disciples be? Undoubtedly, the disciples had been unduly concerned about their status in the coming kingdom. It is clear that they were still anticipating an earthly kingdom, in which Jesus would be the King and they would be His privileged servants.
As they gathered at the home which Jesus had established in Capernaum (Mt 17:24; Mk 9:33) they were arguing among themselves as to “who should be the greatest” in the Kingdom. Luke 9:46-50. (Mt 18:1). According to Mark 9:33, Jesus had raised the question, “What was it that ye disputed among yourselves by the way?” Apparently, they did not answer immediately, for Mark 9:34 states, “But they held their peace. Breaking the awkward silence, apparently one of the disciples asked the question recorded in Matthew 18:1.

In answer to their question, Jesus called a little child to Him. When the disciples observed the little child standing in their midst, Jesus then took the child in His arms (Mk 9:36-37) and said to the disciples, “Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.” Luke reports the incident this way, (Luke 9:48), “Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great. Matthew reports it this way, “Verily I say unto you, except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven” (Mt 18:3-4).

Jesus, in effect, was saying that they were asking the wrong question. They should have been asking, how can I best serve the King? rather than, How can I best serve myself? The child in the arms of Jesus was a graphic illustration of loving trust, immediate obedience in coming to the arms of Christ, and in seeking only the position of being loved. True greatness involved taking an attitude of unpretentious humility instead of seeking a position of power. Jesus used the occasion, however, to speak of the importance of human personality, as illustrated in the child who has no position or wealth and no power. Instead of seeking greatness in the kingdom, the disciples should be seeking how they can serve ordinary human beings, such as this child. Jesus stated that if they received a child in His name, it signified that they were in a proper relationship of faith in Christ Himself.

These teachings of Jesus were in sharp contrast to that which was popular in the heathen world, where children were often used as human sacrifices and often suffered cruelty and neglect. The disciples, accordingly, were warned not to offend a child. It would be better to be drowned in the deep sea with a millstone around one’s neck than to offend a little one. It would be better to have a hand or foot cut off or an eye plucked out than to offend one of these, especially in spiritual things.


580 posted on 06/22/2009 6:35:57 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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