Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: bronxville
Just one quick example of your misquoting scripture:

"1 Cor. 5:7 - Paul tells us that the Lamb has been sacrificed. But what do we need to do? Some Protestants say we just need to accept Jesus as personal Lord and Savior. 1 Cor. 5:8 - But Paul says that we need to celebrate the Eucharistic feast. This means that we need to eat the Lamb. We need to restore communion with God."

What scripture actually says: "For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8`Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."

That hardly suggests the communion wafer becomes the actual flesh of Jesus.

In a spiritual sense, we are certainly supposed to take Communion very serious. Those who take it lightly are profaning holy ground. But none of the verses you quote indicate that the wafer is the flesh of Jesus, sacrificed again.

An earlier post has more to think about, and I'll attempt a reply tomorrow.

79 posted on 06/14/2009 9:10:09 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies ]


To: Mr Rogers

In 1 Cor 5:7, the point of the passage—especially when read in light of ALL the other verses bronxville cited—is that there is the clear reference to Christ as the sacrificial lamb. The verse states, “For our paschal lamb, Chirst, has been sacrificed.” This validates the previous analyses which link “remembrance” to “sacrifice.” And directly links the sacrifice of Christ to the paschal feast on Passover. To “remember” Christ then is to re-represent his eternal sacrifice as the slain Lamb of God. And we know for a fact that the Lord requires the Hebrews to EAT the lamb, as a requirement for escaping justice. The Lord didn’t tell the Hebrews to “symbolize” eating the lamb. He told them to eat the whole thing, or else their first born were to be taken, as were the Egyptian first born. The redemption of the Hebrews from slavery in Egypt foreshadows our redemption from original sin and death through our abiding in Christ in the Eucharistic feast.


91 posted on 06/15/2009 10:43:42 AM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies ]

To: bdeaner; Mr Rogers

“I’ve never experienced a communion where the bread and wine became The Real Body and Blood of Jesus. Does it taste like beef?

“Jesus - the Other White Meat?”

That’s your response to my posts #37 & 40 where I actually quoted Holy Scripture. Please find in those posts where I misquoted or lied. Thusfar your only response has been the above distastful remarks and this one:

“... the significance is spiritual, which aligns with the Protestant position.”

Here are those posts in summary which show a consistency on the continuum...

“I am the bread of life ...unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man you will have no life within you.” (Jn 6)

John 6:25-71 is where Jesus promises the Eucharist. This account, which occupies 2/3 of the chapter, describes Jesus’ exchange with a crowd of disciples; probably numbering several thousand as this event follows the feeding of the 5,000 (most of the preceding 1/3 of the chapter) and these disciples have followed Him seeking more of this miraculous bread. After all, Moses provided bread for those who followed him during their wanderings in the desert. Jesus tells them that He is the bread of life that came down from heaven and those who come to Him will never be hungry. The disciples don’t understand and complain because Jesus said that He comes down from heaven, but they know that He is a man; they know His parents. Jesus again tells them that He is the living bread which came down from heaven and anyone who eats this bread will have eternal life.

The disciples understand Him literally and begin to dispute among themselves because they don’t understand how He can give them His flesh to eat. Jesus then underscores this literal interpretation by stating four times [in four successive verses (53-56)] that they must eat His Flesh and drink His Blood or they will not have everlasting life. The Greek verb used in these four verses for “eat” is much stronger than the verb used earlier in this discourse; in this case it literally means “chew, gnaw”; hardly a word to be taken symbolically.

Jesus then tells the disciples that the “Spirit gives life, the flesh counts for nothing”. In other words, stop worrying about food for your flesh and start worrying about food for your Spirit (notice that he talks about “the flesh” and not “My flesh”; He is talking about the flesh of John 3:6). Then many of His disciples left Him–the only place in Holy Scripture where people cease to follow Him for a reason of doctrine–they have understood Him literally and He, who understands perfectly, does not seek to change or modify their understanding; because there is no misunderstanding. Jesus then asks His apostles if they wish to leave too but Peter, speaking for the rest, tells Him that although they don’t understand, they will continue to follow Him because they know that He has been sent by God for their salvation. It is interesting to note that this is the first time in the Bible where it is noted that Judas Iscariot will later leave to betray Him (Judas didn’t believe that Jesus could give His Flesh to eat and His Blood to drink and so left at the Last Supper when the Eucharist was instituted).

Gospel accounts of the Last Supper per Mark 14:17-26. This account is where the promise of John 6 to give His Body and Blood is fulfilled and it starts off by pointing out that Judas will leave to betray Him, the second time in the Bible that Judas’ betrayal is mentioned. During the Passover liturgy the presiding elder explains the significance of the elements. Following this custom Jesus takes the bread, and later the cup, and after giving thanks (the Greek word is eucharisteo) departs from the customary significance and instead says “this is My Body . . . this is My Blood.” When God speaks, what He pronounces comes into being (God said “Let there be light . . . “). He then says that His Blood is the blood of the covenant which is poured out for many. This is the only time in Jesus’ recorded life where He uses the word “covenant”; a word which when used in the Jewish liturgical sense, means the forming of an irrevocable sacred family bond. Just as during the original Passover the blood marked the homes of the members of God’s family, so now, drinking His Blood marks the members of His family.

1 Corinthians 10:16-17 is where Paul tells us that when we partake of the bread and the cup we participate in the Body and Blood of our Lord and that we are united because we all eat of the same loaf which is Christ. It’s hard to “partake of” and “participate in” something which is only figurative rather than real.

1 Corinthians 11:23-30. Here, Paul reminds us that although he was not present at the Last Supper, he received revelation directly from the Lord. Paul then gives us the same account of the happenings at the Last Supper with the clarification from Jesus to “do this in remembrance of Me.” Remembrance for a Jew is a lot more than looking back fondly on a past event, when a remembrance (memorial) sacrifice is offered, the participants are made present at the original event and participate in that event. Here, Jesus is telling His apostles to institute a perpetual memorial sacrifice for Him.

Paul then goes on to warn the Corinthians, most of whom believe that the Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of Christ, that they are to exclude themselves from participation in the meal if they do not recognize that it is the real presence of the Lord or they will eat and drink damnation upon themselves. These words would not have been spoken, because there would be no need for the warning, if the Eucharist were a mere symbol.

Does this “prove” the Eucharist?

It convinces me, because I have only three choices:

1) It is true;

2) The Bible is wrong; or

3) Jesus lied.

Of the three choices, only the first one is acceptable.

PS: Martin Luther, the founder of the reform believed in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. In 1529, he engaged the question of transubstantiation in the famous conference at Marburg with Zwingli and other Swiss theologians; he maintained his view that Christ is present in the bread and wine of the Eucharist.


121 posted on 06/15/2009 9:53:41 PM PDT by bronxville
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson