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To: Claud

Please tell me where you are getting the information on the difference between alethinos and alethes. They appear to come from the same root. I see them being used with the same intent, obviously one being an adverb. Also none of my references make the distinction you have claimed (I admit I may just not have the references you are using).

I read all of the quotes. They do not refer to transubstantiation until the later ones.

I am sorry that I can’t stay on and discuss this at more length. I must add, it is more important to compare scripture with scripture. If you fail to do so, you will not understand the scripture. Jesus Christ was sacrificed once. I’ll stick to it, because once you start playing the
Greek game, you can make the Book say anything you want it to say. Just pick your definitions and your Greek authorities.

I am very much not interested in discussing textual criticism, but simply expressing the excessively clear doctrine that we celebrate the Lord’s Supper as a remembrance until he comes. That’s what the Bible says.


30 posted on 06/13/2009 9:13:03 PM PDT by refreshed
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To: refreshed

They are indeed from the same root. But here’s a few commentaries that draw the distinction:

http://www.antioch.com.sg/cgi-bin/bible/vines/get_defn.pl?num=3090
Note: “Alethinos is related to alethes as form to contents or substances; alethes denotes the reality of the thing, alethinos defines the relation of the conception to the thing to which it corresponds = genuine” (Cremer). “

http://bible.cc/hebrews/8-2.htm
“Greek “alethinos” (used here) is opposed to that which does not fulfil its idea, as for instance, a type; “alethes,” to that which is untrue and unreal, as a lie. The measure of alethes is reality; that of alethinos, ideality. In alethes the idea corresponds to the thing; in alethinos, the thing to the idea [Kalmis in Alford].”

http://books.google.com/books?id=qbsCAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=alethes+true+substance&source=bl&ots=aoJ2dcXoTj&sig=618eN8-thT5XCWWMKVk3a8Z9ZUo&hl=en&ei=W8s0SqqDJJ6MtgfwvZCnCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4
“In Greek the distinction is clearly indicated by the use of two words, alethes true and alethinos very, which are never used indiscriminately. The word translated in our version is alethinos, and should be rendered very, for it indicates the contrast not between the true and the false—but between the imperfect and the perfect, between the shadowy and the substantial, the type and the archetype, the highest ideal, and a subordinate realization of partial anticipation.”

You are 100% right that the Bible says the Eucharistic meal is a remembrance. But where does it say it is *only* a remembrance? Where does it say that it is a remembrance without an underlying reality?

So let’s compare Scripture with Scripture. The accounts of the Last Supper say “This is my body”—and even Martin Luther scornfully disagreed with those who would substitute the word “represents” for the word “is”. Then we have 1 Cor 11: “For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.” We have the very literal passages in John 6.

And there are no passages that prove the contrary.


43 posted on 06/14/2009 4:09:56 AM PDT by Claud
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