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To: HarleyD

***I would point out that Augustine’s Treatise of the Saints was not only at the end of his career, but was inspired by the Blessed Cyprian.***

And Augustine’s Predestination theology was in total contradiction to Cyprian. And none of this is in agreement with the Fathers. That is why Augustine is a minor Father at best in the East.

Augustine stops short of double predestination; he has nobody condemned to hell.

***We are elected so that we may believe. We are not elected because we believe. A distinct and important difference.***

It is a difference; yet we have the words of Jesus offering salvation to all; yet acknowledging that not all will accept it.


68 posted on 06/13/2009 9:01:09 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr
And Augustine’s Predestination theology was in total contradiction to Cyprian.

That's not what Augustine states. It was because of Cyprian that he came to this conclusion.

And none of this is in agreement with the Fathers.

None of the Fathers you have chosen. Besides, while there is substantial evidence it is in agreement with a number of Fathers, it really doesn't have to be. From a Protestant perspective all it has to be is in agreement with the scriptures. Are you prepared to say that your faith and repentance is not a gift from God?

Augustine stops short of double predestination; he has nobody condemned to hell.

That seems to be a hollow argument. In that case, neither does a Reformer. We simply acknowledge what Augustine acknowledge, that faith and repentance is a gift from God. You are elected to believe.

It is a difference; yet we have the words of Jesus offering salvation to all; yet acknowledging that not all will accept it.

They can't acknowledge it until their eyes and ears are opened.

69 posted on 06/13/2009 4:02:35 PM PDT by HarleyD
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