Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


1 posted on 06/10/2009 1:09:05 AM PDT by xzins
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: P-Marlowe

The only real question is this: is the Son the Father? The answer is no. That is illogical.

Arminius himself, above, on the subject of his accusers.


2 posted on 06/10/2009 1:10:14 AM PDT by xzins (Chaplain Says: Jesus befriends those who seek His help.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Alex Murphy; xzins; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; SeaHawkFan

ping: Arminius’ own words


3 posted on 06/10/2009 1:12:36 AM PDT by xzins (Chaplain Says: Jesus befriends those who seek His help.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: xzins
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a SON is given: . . . and his name shall be . . . The Everlasting Father, . . .” (Isaiah 9:6)

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, . . .” (1 Timothy 3:16)

To the human mind inscrutable, that's one reason it's called a mystery.

4 posted on 06/10/2009 2:24:07 AM PDT by John Leland 1789
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: xzins

I just knew those evil Calvinists were lying about Arminius. ;-)


8 posted on 06/10/2009 5:19:52 AM PDT by SeaHawkFan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Dr. Eckleburg; SeaHawkFan
At a disputation held one afternoon in the University, when the thesis that had been proposed for disputation was the Divinity of the Son of God, one of the students happened to object, "that the Son of God was autotheos, and that he therefore had his essence from himself and not from the Father." In reply to this I observed, "that the word autotheos was capable of two different acceptations, since it might signify either "one who is truly God," or "one who is God of himself;" and that it was with great propriety and correctness attributed to the Son of God according to the former signification, but not according to the latter." The student, in prosecution of his argument, violently contended, that the word was justly applicable to the Son of God, principally according to the second of these significations: and that the essence of the Father could not be said to be communicated to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, in any other than in an improper sense; but that it was in perfect correctness and strict propriety common alike to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost"....To these observations I answered, "that this opinion was at variance with the word of God, and with the whole of the ancient Church, both Greek and Latin, which had always taught, that the Son had His Deity from the Father by eternal generation." To these remarks I subjoined, "that from such an opinion as this, necessarily followed the two mutually conflicting errors, Tri-theism and Sabellianism; that is, (1.) It would ensue as a necessary consequence, from these premises, that there are three Gods, who have together and collaterally the Divine essence, independently of this circumstance -- that one of them (being only personally distinguished from the rest) has that essence from another of the persons. Yet the proceeding of the origin of one person from another, (that is, of the Son from the Father,) is the only foundation that has ever been used for defending the Unity of the Divine Essence in the Trinity of Persons. (It would likewise follow as another consequence, that the Son would himself be the Father, because he would differ from the Father in nothing but in regard to name, which was the opinion of Sabellius. For, since it is peculiar to the Father to derive his Deity from himself, or (to speak more correctly,) to derive it from no one, if, in the sense of being "God of himself," the Son be called autotheos, it follows that he is the Father"....

....God, or the Divine Essence, may be considered both absolutely and relatively. When regarded absolutely, the Son has his Divine essence from himself; but, when viewed relatively, he derives it from the Father." But these are new modes of speaking and novel opinions, and such as can by no means consist together. For the Son, both in regard to his being the Son, and to his being God, derives his Deity from the Father. When he is called God, it is then only not expressed that he is from the Father; which derivation is particularly noted when the word Son is employed. Indeed, the essence of God can in no manner come under our consideration, except it be said, "that the Divine Essence is communicated to the Son by the Father." Nor can it possibly in any different respect whatever be said, that this essence is both "communicated to him" and "not communicated;" because these expressions are contradictory, and can in no diverse respect be reconciled to each other. If the Son have the Divine Essence from himself in reference to its being absolutely considered, it cannot be communicated to him. If it be communicated to him in reference to its being relatively considered, he cannot have it from himself in reference to its being absolutely considered....

....God is from eternity, possessing the Divine Essence from eternity. The Father is from no one, having the Divine Essence from no one. The Son is from the Father, having the Divine Essence from the Father. The word "God" therefore signifies, that He has the true Divine Essence; but the word "Son" signifies, that he has the Divine Essence from the Father. On this account, he is correctly denominated both God and the Son of God. But since he cannot be styled the Father, he cannot possibly be said to have the Divine Essence from himself or from no one.

Arminius on Arminius. What was that about the "evil Calvinists" lying about Arminius, SeaHawkFan?

This hint of subordinationism in Arminius' understanding of the mediatorial office of the Son is more pronounced in his claim that the Son receives His deity, and not merely His personality as Son, from the Father. For Arminius, the Son is not autotheos, but has both "divine essence" and "divine life" of himself. In part, his argument is that the Reformed view of the "autotheotic" reality of the three persons is inevitably tritheistic: "the Reformed doctrine of the Son's aseity . . . violates the unity of the divine essence by postulating three divine persons each God from himself -- in short, by postulating three separate deities and lapsing into tritheism". From his reading of the fathers, Arminius concluded that "God the Father [is] the principium of the Godhead"....
From the thread Arminius's Christology
9 posted on 06/10/2009 6:42:35 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: xzins; Alex Murphy
The link I used yesterday said Arminius often contradicted himself. Here is a good example when comparing what he says here to what he said in Alex' thread regarding the Trinity.

Arminius seems to be one of those guys who wants everything both ways. And that's neither prudent nor Scriptural.

11 posted on 06/10/2009 8:57:33 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson