Replies

Diego1618:

Ok, I think we are on to something here. Yes, baptism does give one grace, but as St. Augustine talked about, extrapolating on St. Paul’s letter to the Romans in Chapter 7, even after one has come to Christ, one still struggles with temptation. If you read St. Paul’s leter to the Romans in the context that Taylor Marshall [a former Anglican clergyman who came into full communion with the Catholic Church] puts it, I think you see the Catholic position as in Chapter 5 of Romans, Paul talks about original sin [i.e. Mans fallen nature], in Chapter 6 St. Paul talks about Baptism as the solution to original sin and in Chapter 7, St. Paul describes “Concupiscence/Flesh”, i.e. the inclination to struggle with sin even after we have come to faith. The understanding of struggling with sin, even after Baptism, was the understanding of both St. Ambrose and St. Augustine and it is obvious that St.Paul is noting that he still struggles with sin “What I do, I do not understand. For I do not do what I want, but do what I hate” (c.f. Romans 7:16). St. Paul makes similar statements in Romans 7:20.

I think I see where you and I may differ. This all goes back to how Catholics view justification vs. how you as a Protestant view justification, which I think is the doctrine of Once Saved always saved.

Regards

http://cantuar.blogspot.com/2009/06/romans-6-vs-romans-7-part-ii-original.html

I appreciate your comments very much....but I'm still asking the question. Is it the position of your Church that after baptism you consider yourselves "Born Again"? Or did the poster just make an error in writing and meant to say "Begotten of the spirit?"

Actually, I'm not a Protestant either. I fashion my beliefs according to the First Century Church of the Apostles. This means that I observe the Sabbath as well as the seven Holy Feast days as expressed in [Leviticus 23].

The understanding of struggling with sin, even after Baptism, was the understanding of both St. Ambrose and St. Augustine and it is obvious that St.Paul is noting that he still struggles with sin “What I do, I do not understand. For I do not do what I want, but do what I hate” (c.f. Romans 7:16). St. Paul makes similar statements in Romans 7:20.

We all struggle with sin and will continue to struggle with sin as long as we are flesh and blood.....and until we are born again of the spirit. I liken the begetting process (baptism) as a sperm fertilizing the egg. Then the process of gestation begins....the growing in the word and the commitment and service to Our Lord. After the gestation is over the birth occurs and at that point the "born again" individual will be like Our Lord.....immortal and composed of spirit. And as the Apostle John mentions.....unable to sin.