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To: CTrent1564
He shed blood, didn't He? He died and was buried, wasn't He? He resurrected, didn't He? He would be the firstborn among many brethren [Romans 8:29], wouldn't He? Our Lord was a "man".....born of woman.

[I Corinthians 15:20-23] 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by "man" came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's "at his coming". i.e. the resurrection!

[John 1:14-18] 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. This was who He was prior to His crucifixion and resurrection.

Now, if you are a Oneness Pentecostal or Jehova’s Witness, then what you are saying is diametrically opposed to orthodox Christian doctrine and in fact, is objectively not even Christianity.

Well.....I'm none of those things....needless to say I'm neither a Catholic. What I'm doing is simply reading from God's word. What is it that you would consider in error?

41 posted on 06/07/2009 9:10:48 PM PDT by Diego1618 (Put "Ron" on the rock!)
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To: Diego1618

Diego1618:

I understand you are reading God’s word, I have the same NT and read the same things. THe question is what does it mean. THe Scriptures don’t say anything, in that the Bible is not a person that can speak. It is the inerrant word of God, but needs to be interpreted within proper hermaneutical principles and in light of what is the faith.

As a Catholic, I firmly believe in the passion of Christ [shed blood], his death, and resurrection. However, Christ being the “firstborn among many brethren” is a statement about what Christ’s passion death and resurrection does for fallen humanity, rather than saying that Christ was born again, which you stated earlier.

For example, St. Paul in 2 Cor 4:4 speaks of the risen Christ as being “the image of God” and just before that, he states that believers in Christ will be “transformed into that same image” (c.f. 2 Cor 3:18). In another passage, St. Paul states that “he [Christ] will change our lowly body to conform with his glorified body” (c.f. Phil 3:21).

These passages allow us to accurately understand what Pope Benedict states in “Introduction to CHristianity” (p.234) that Christ is the “Last Man”, that is the exemplary man that is being taught by St. Paul in (1 Cor 15:45), that CHrist, as risen and Lord, is the “Last Adam” which is the example of a new humanity perfected by God’s Grace, which was part of God’s original plan in creation when God created man in the “Divine image” (c.f. Genesis 1:26-28).

So, as Pope Benedict notes in “Jesus of Nazareth, p. 334), Christ comes from God and he is God, but that is precisely what makes him, having assumed human nature, the bringer of a true humanity.

So again, I would encourage you to see Christ as a Divine person, who took on a human nature, but always had a Divine nature, and thus a person was born of Mary in Bethlem, a person died on the cross, and a person rose from the Dead. This person is a Divine Person, Christ Jesus, with two distinct natures, Divine and Human, yet still One person, who is Christ.

So it was Christ who rose from the dead, his entire person, and at those those who die with Christ will be raised with him, and which points to the resurrection of the body [affirmed in both the Apostles and Nicene Creeds], a belief which rejects the Gnostic concept that matter [body], is evil, and spirit [soul] is good.

Christ via his incarnation, passion, death and resurrection, came to save human persons, which means the entire person, body and spirit, which is why all of the post resurrection accounts speak of Christ, not a spirit and why St. Paul in Phil 3:21 spoke of CHrist conforming us to his glorified body and why St. John stated that in heaven we shall be “like him” (c.f. 1 John 3:2). All of this speaks to Christ in his glorified state, which points to us being conformed into the image of the Resurrected and glorified Christ, who is and always is Christ, a Divine Person with a Divine Nature and human nature.


42 posted on 06/08/2009 6:18:41 AM PDT by CTrent1564
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