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To: P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; blue-duncan
When the American troops arrived at Dachau, they summarily executed the Nazi guards that they found there. No trial. No due process. They just lined them up outside the walls and gunned them down... and their little dogs too.
There must always be judicial representation, and it is established biblically through ordination. There are but three covenantal institutions that God recognizes: Church, State, and Family. Each of them is established by a vow taken before God. A self maledictory oath and we say in our marriage vows, "'til death do us part." In the Church, we are baptized, which symbolizes going through the death and resurrection with Jesus Christ. Death is always a possibility for covenant-breaking. This death is announced through excommunication. In the State, we take a vow, or at lease implicitly we do, to uphold the law. We are brought under the sanctions of God if we unlawfully violate an oath of subordination. The point is: there must be, in every covenant, a representative. This representative is ordained to his office.
In war, there is no trial. No due process. The soldiers who liberated Buchenwald were judicial representatives of the nations that sent them there, authorized to use deadly force as part of those nations' Declarations of War.

Dr George Tiller was a full member in good standing of Reformation Lutheran Church (ELCA). More pointedly, he was not excommunicated by his church, despite his day job being the moral equivalent to being a Camp Director at Dachau. Further, he was fully licensed in his work by the State of Kansas, and had legal permission to do so from the Supreme Court of the United States, and from the Attorney General of the United States. While his actions were morally wrong, George Tiller's country and George Tiller's church did indeed bless them and sanction them. And that's why Scott Roeder will be going on trial for his murder.

Consider the flip-side now. What church or state was Scott Roeder sanctioned by? Whose laws did Roeder represent in shooting an unarmed, untried man? Killing a bad man does not automatically render the killing as a righteous act.

8 posted on 06/05/2009 10:26:36 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy; Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; blue-duncan; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; wagglebee; wmfights
Dr George Tiller.... was fully licensed in his work by the State of Kansas...

Not exactly.

The performance of late term abortions is only legal in Kansas under very strict rules which prohibit such abortions except where there is a grave threat to the physical health of the mother.

Frankly since late term pregnancies which threaten the health of the mother can easily and safely be terminated by cesarean birth rather than partial birth abortion, there was no legal basis for Tiller's execution of children in his store-front concentration camp. He was not legally licensed to do what he was doing.

The problem was that the government was not enforcing its own laws for the protection of viable fetuses (a state right that even the Supreme Court in Roe v. Wade said was a legitimate reason to ban late term abortions).

While his actions were morally wrong, George Tiller's country and George Tiller's church did indeed bless them and sanction them.

Wrong. The State of Kansas did not bless or sanction his crimes against humanity.... the officials in charge of enforcing the laws ignored them. And as far as his Church sanctioning and blessing them, well, frankly I think it was fitting that he was assassinated in the lobby of that church.

Tell me Alex, do you consider late term abortions to be "murder"?

If so, do you believe that if he had not been killed on Sunday, that Tiller was going to eat breakfast, read the paper and go to work and murder an innocent child or two on Monday morning?

I think the reason that we can all condemn Paul Hill's actions while we have trouble condeming Roeder's actions is that Paul Hill's actions included gunning down two people who were not directly involved in the abortions and I'm not all that sure that the abortionist that Paul Hill shot was violating any specific laws (like Tiller) or that he was a late term abortion provider.

Paul Hill was rightly condemned and executed because he not only killed an abortion provider, but one of his employees as well as well as attempting to murder a third.

Personally I pray that Roeder is acquitted.

11 posted on 06/05/2009 11:17:19 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Alex Murphy; P-Marlowe; xzins; blue-duncan
Every non-braindead member of Tiller's church should have demanded Tiller's excommunication at the very least.

If that action was refused by the church, they should have fled.

All men sin and as sinners we come to God in repentance. Tiller wasn't repentant of his sins; he paid his mortgage with them and put blood money in the church's coffers every Sunday.

We are to separate ourselves from known evil. But to personally take a gun and murder even a murderer is not taught anywhere in Scripture. "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord."

12 posted on 06/05/2009 11:51:49 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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