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To: Dr. Eckleburg
This is one reason Paul spent so much time encouraging disciples not to simply feel, but to truly know their salvation had been won for them by the risen Christ.

But Doc, I gotta ask - aren't we commanded to worship in both spirit AND truth? In practice, it's too often reduced to either or.

33 posted on 05/29/2009 8:46:36 AM PDT by Terabitten (Vets wrote a blank check, payable to the Constitution, for an amount up to and including their life.)
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To: Terabitten

I believe both the “spirit” and the “truth” are knowable and as rational as our minds are capable of grasping. I sing as loud as anyone in church, but I try to concentrate on the words. The music may move me, but it’s the words that make me cry.


35 posted on 05/29/2009 8:53:26 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Terabitten; Dr. Eckleburg
But Doc, I gotta ask - aren't we commanded to worship in both spirit AND truth? In practice, it's too often reduced to either or.

Yes, we are commanded to do both.

In Reformed circles, we tend to prioritize truth over relationships (and IMO that's the correct prioritization), and then we willingly (and rapidly) sacrifice relationships whenever we feel doctrinal truths are threatened. Yes, we must contend for the truth. But we should also be willing to reach across the aisle and show meekness and tenderness towards those who we disagree with doctrinally, especially when disagreements are in minor doctrinal things.

A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

With patience a ruler may be persuaded, and a soft tongue will break a bone. -- Proverbs 25:15

IMO this is a shameful historic trait of Reformed Protestantism that must be resolved. It is somewhat culturally mitigated (some cultures produce thicker-skinned combatants than others), but it doesn't negate the need in general.

------

We may be true Christians, really born-again Christians, and yet fail in our love toward other Christians. As a matter of fact, to be completely realistic, it is stronger than this. There will be times (and let us say it with tears), there will be times when we will fail in our love toward each other as Christians. In a fallen world, where there is no such thing as perfection until Jesus comes, we know this will be the case. And, of course, when we fail, we must ask God's forgiveness. But, Jesus is not here saying that our failure to love all Christians proves that we are not Christians.

Let each of us see this individually for ourselves. If I fail in my love toward Christians, it does not prove I am not a Christian. What Jesus is saying, however, is that, if I do not have the love I should have toward all other Christians, the world has the right to make the judgment that I am not a Christian.

This distinction is imperative. If we fail in our love toward all Christians, we must not tear our heart out as though it were proof that we are lost. No one except Christ himself has ever lived and not failed. If success in love toward our brothers in Christ were to be the standard of whether or not a man is a Christian, then there would be no Christians, because all men have failed. But Jesus gives the world a piece of litmus paper, a reasonable thermometer: There is a mark which, if the world does not see, allows them to conclude, "This man is not a Christian." Of course, the world may be making a wrong judgment because, if the man is truly a Christian, as far as the reality goes, they made a mistake.

It is true that a non-Christian often hides behind what he sees in Christians and then screams, "Hypocrites!" when in reality he is a sinner who will not face the claims of Christ. But that is not what Jesus is talking about here. Here Jesus is talking about our responsibility as individuals and as groups to so love all other true Christians that the world will have no valid reason for saying that we are not Christians....

[snip]

....Of course as Christians we must not minimize the need to give honest answers to honest questions. We should have an intellectual apologetic. The Bible commands it and Christ and Paul exemplify it. In the synagogue, in the marketplace, in homes and in almost every conceivable kind of situation, Jesus and Paul discussed Christianity. It is likewise the Christian's task to be able to give an honest answer to an honest question and then to give it.

Yet, without true Christians loving one another, Christ says the world cannot be expected to listen, even when we give proper answers. Let us be careful, indeed, to spend a lifetime studying to give honest answers. For years the orthodox, evangelical church has done this very poorly. So it is well to spend time learning to answer the questions of men who are about us. But after we have done our best to communicate to a lost world, still we must never forget that the final apologetic which Jesus gives is the observable love of true Christians for true Christians.

-- From part 2 and part 3 of Francis Schaeffer's The Mark Of The Christian.


42 posted on 05/29/2009 9:22:48 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Presbyterians often forget that John Knox had been a Sunday bowler.)
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